Zack, I was really not trying to imply anything about creating a new species, just that whenever we start a breeding program we are modifying a species to our own liking, or to a standard set by others. This may or may not be true to the wild for, if there is even a wild form. Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.