Dont get me wrong Max,.... I love my killies. I even love those little brown ones.... you know rivs.... that arent so ugly anymore... I have many tanks with my killies set up in them and dont even try to worry about breeding them. I just enjoy the colors of the fish. I have 2 species of rivs that my apistos would become dither fish for... they are much larger and more aggressive then any apisto i have. I also have a alot of tanks set up so that you see the whole tank from the front. Most of these are 20 longs and 55's. Kind of hard to set those tanks up end to end....would need long arms to clean them at the back end... I do have long arms but not that long....lol Now heres a question.... when you guys do your photographing..... do you do it at night when everything is totally dark except for the light on the tank and your flash?? John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto