Hello Ray Yes we're having mickey mouse snow right now, just flurries tonight but maybe 4 to 12 cm by the morning. Brrrrrr too late in the spring to have this kind of weather. Good luck with the Elizabethae..... thats one species i have never been fortunate to keep yet. I do want them. But your water parameters sound about right from what i've read about them.... a friend of mine in Montreal has spawned them and is now working on spawning his first batch of fry. Maybe someday I'll get some from George when he has enough of them to spare.... After reading Romers book in English and drooling over the pics in the German edition... i see there are still quite a few species on my wish list. As far as spawning the Maulbruter.... i did have mine spawn once... but eggs didnt turn out to be any good.... dont know if my water was acid enough or what was wrong. I saw pics that Ade Lau posted showing a female with fry in her mouth.... so Ade if you wouldnt mind speaking up and letting us know more about how you had a successful spawn. Well time to depart for now... yankees are still on the tube.. and winning John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto