Oh yeah, if anyone wants, they are free to use those pics (only the ones posted by designated thinker...that's me) unless it's for a book. i would like my name in a book...a information book, just in case someone was thinking along another line. I would appreciate it if you would thank max since he is hosting them. A brief history-a friend told me I would like apisto's b/c their "smart" and cool to watch. I bought one. A. cauc. male. A few days later, i bought a "female a. cauc." from the same place. 2 days later, male's dead. i then got a "pair" of viejita cm II. Zero interaction, not even aggression. a week later got a "a. cauc" male which is the pic on "the digital aquarium. He chased everyone, all of the time, when they got close to the bottom. this was all in a 45 or 55 hex...the worst tank. I then set up a 75 with bogwood and pots (recommended from Z-man's site, lots of them was the part i took home). Added a bunch of plants. lots of hiding places. I also set up a 10 gal for a pair of double red aggies. one week later the female aggi was ripped up pretty bad. separated them, next day, dead female. my "pair" viejita? nothing. there was actually more in terms of interaction and almost pairing activity betweem the male v cm 2 and the "cauc female"(also on dig. aq) the female v died...so i bought another one. a week later the male died. i then went back to my LFS and bought a female that was in a tank with the males that look like that atahualpa-looking fish. they actually tolerated each other and defended about 60% of the 75 gal tank. I just want to get some easy apisto's to start and work my way up. I hear caucs are nice and easy. anyone have any input, apart from "please don't write this much ever again"? any of you info is appreciated as always. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto