Dave If you work strictly with wild caught Cacatuoides, you pretty much end up with a fixed pair that dont throw alot of those bright reds and orange tails... I wish i could actually get a pair of those yellow "orangeless" fish. I used to have a pair and used the females to cross with my triple red line to make nice looking fish.... didnt make really colorful fins on the males.... but the fin extensions were awesome and had just enough color to make them very attractive....Sad part is no one imports these guys anymore.... everyone wants color color color......8-( John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto