Ok, here goes my 2 bits worth of experiences with sick fish. Im probably going to piss someone off by saying that I NEVER use medications of any sort......closest i get to putting anything into my tank, chemical wise, is Tap water conditioner to dechlor my tap water. I have been raising and breeding apistos, cichlids and other species of fish for over 13 years now.... i used to try this stuff and do that stuff to my water to try and save my "sick" fish. In all that time, i've learned that major water changes..... raise the temp a little and watch your fish, has gotten me through a whole lot of bad times with my fish, actually not a whole lot of bad times. Maybe im lucky , maybe i am careful.... I dont know. I dont add new fish to established tanks, never keep Neons or lots of little tetras any more, they cause too many problems, I keep my fish as 99% species tanks only.....i have very little "community tanks.... ie mixed species".... this in turn i think cuts down on my problems..... I very rarely ever use "dither" fish... just another thing that can cause problems.... When, and if I do see a problem, I do big water changes.... 75% changes, maybe once or twice a day..... maybe raise the temp in the tank a few degrees...... I DONT use Salt at all.... i find no beneficial use for it... yes, it helps ease stress on the gills they say, allowing fish to breath easier for a few minutes, but then you gotta deal with the salt in the tank, and the problem still isnt solved... Salt only goes in my Molly tanks, they are brackish water fish to start with..... Doing Water changes most of the time eliminates what was causing the problems in your tank to start with..... fish just dont get sick for no reason..... a chilled tank doesnt cause ick either.... I know , i lived through the ice storm , fish tanks got down into the lower 40's and with over 100 tanks, when the power came back on a week later.... and tank temps went back to normal..... NOT ONE outbreak of Ich.. Ick is in all tanks at all times, whether you realize it or not, stress causes the outbreak.... which means your water conditions caused your fish to be stressed... not the temp...ammonia or nitrate or nitrite levels were up..... this caused your fish to be stressed... Water changes....Water changes...water changes.... watch your fish, look at every tank each day.... see what's going on in there. Ok, off my soap box, I'll shut up now... Oh Scotty.... I can use shields now!!!! Tundra John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. apisto-digest@listbox.com also available. Web archives at http://lists.thekrib.com/apisto Trading at http://blox.dropship.org/mailman/listinfo/apisto_trader