Hi Frank. Hi, everyone. Talked to a knowledgeable friend today about leaf litter, as I also have some apistos I want to care more for. He suggested using oak leaves or other fairly thick leaves, as thin ones would disintegrate and hence more likely create a mess in the tank. Just thought I'll pass that along. --erik PS: I am fairly new to this list, the list is fairly new also? I was asked to introduce myself when I first subscribed, which I didn't. So....here 't goes: Got 11 tanks, two big "show" tanks, 3 medium and 6 small. Cichlids (all from South America), catfish and tetras. In one tank I keep my apistos, which I believe are eunotus, agassizi and possibly cacatoides. These were caught in Peru this summer. So far most of my "fish time" is spent on discus and crenicichla, but I want to know more about apistos too (and care for them better). ----------