In a message dated 98-02-11 23:28:09 EST, you write: << You might want to look at dorsal fin height to body depth. Males should have taller dorsal fins with shorter body depth than females. Females should also be rounder in girth than males. The extended rays at the front of the dorsal fin should be longer in males. As others will no doubt chime in all of these features goes to pot with inbred domestic strains where these features can occur in both sexes. >> Yeah, that is about right. My females have the same length of rays as the males so that isn't a very good indicator. I find them fairly easy to sex because the female has a pink area on her belly when she is mature. Also I'm not sure with wild rams, but usually males with be quite larger than females and all my males have much more yellow coloring in the head region of their body than females do. Hope this helps, Bryan Kohart