just wanted to say that the krib was the first non-livebearer fish i ever bred. well, actually i didn't breed them, they just bred by themselves. they were very easy and non-demanding (except that they kept everybody else jammed in one corner of the tank) and the fry were raised inthe same tank as the parents, until they grew big and the parents kept chasing them away and i had to remove the parents to another tank so that they could start anohter batch. but the parental care was just wonderful to watch. i do agree with william vannerson though. there are many (maybe not all) breeders who are only interested in getting points and don't really care for the fish, and once they breed the fish, tehy dump them. there is nothing wrong with keeping an old friend for a long time, i really don't see why the rush to keep and breed every single species. i love many groups of fish (rainbows, livebearers, catfish, labyrinth, tetras, apistos etc.) but i recognize my limitations and don't try to keep everything i want to. this is not an attack on anyone, just some reflections. tsuh yang chen, new york city