i know some people are tired of this thread but i wanted to comment on a few things. when i said that everybody in the third world wanted the same as we do (2 cars, 2 vcr's, 3 tv's, 2 microwaves etc.) i didn't mean that we should all have that, but it was a comment on how wasteful and materialistic all lives are becoming, and how that greatly impacts on the environment. i think that recycling is not enough, reducing our superfluous needs and wants is crucial for our own survival in the long run. and i disagree with doug's pessimism, i don't think that madagascan fish extinction, for example, is imminent. a lot can still be done. sure, the environment in madagascar and around the world needs to be protected, not only isolated species. but nature can be more resilient than we think. there are a lot of animals that scientists have given up as extinct but that sometimes later are found to have survived in some remote area. that has happened many times this century and there are still some animals officially deemed extinct but who may not be: there have been a few signs that the thylacine or tasmanian wolf (a carnivorous marsupial in tasmania) might still be around. and some still hold out hope that the paradise parakeet still lives in some remote area in australia. just recently, 3 new species of hoofed mammals (including a new genus!) were discovered in vietnam and 1 wild horse was rediscovered in tibet. there is so much that we still don't know about the large world we live in. and if isolated fish populations are saved, even if only in captivity, there is always the hope of reintroduction in the wild, once the environment is cleaned up or restored (as with the californian condor, which while not a total success, is being slowly reintroduced in the wild). and contrary to the view that all people in the third world are actively destroying and burning down the rainforests, many are very aware that the destruction of the environment means their own extinction. witness the struggle of ecuadorian indians against american oil companies, brazilian rubber-tappers unionizing efforts in order to save the amazon from cattle-ranchers and mining companies, forest-dwellers in new guinea and borneo fighting against loggers etc. often times, it's a struggle of david against goliath and if we can ally ourselves with the davids around the world, we might still save some patch of green for the future. like doug said, we won't save it all, but i do believe that we should try to save as much as we can. alright, enough preaching, i'll go back to lurking now. tsuh yang chen, new york city (where i just saw at a famous chainstore 3 different species of apisto in one tank, all male, sold under "agassizi" but none actually were)