George, A. ortmanni isn't especially common in the hobby because it is found from the eastern Venezuela/Guyana border to Surinam. This region is a hot bed for aquarium fish exports, at least not like it was in the 60s and 70s. A. ortmanni is a member of the regani-group (regani-complex) and is very similar to A. regani. A. ortmanni is slightly more slender bodied than A. regani. Both species tend to show their vertical bars most of the time and both have abdominal stripes and a barred tail fin. Those of A. regani are more conspicuous. The bars on A. ortmanni's tail fin are typically more faint and don't extend to the outer edges of the tail fin. The major difference between the two is that A. ortmanni has an oval caudal peduncle spot that covers 2/3 of the height of the caudal peduncle, while A. regani as a caudal peduncle stripe that crosses the entire height of the caudal peduncle. Koslowski's book (Die Buntbarsche der Neuen Welt - Zwergcichliden, p. 76-77) shows two excellent photos of this fish, plus one of A. regani for comparison. Schaefer's book (Erfolg mit Zwergcichliden, p. 41) has photos of the same two species plus A. gossei that you can compare, too. The photos of A. ortmanni in the Aqualog book, p.54, are questionable at best. They may all be photos of A. ortmanni, but are definitely not good examples of this species. The top photos (row 2, right, S03755-3; row 3, S03755-4) looks more like A. gossei to me (no tail bands). The bottom photo of A. cf. ortmanni (row 4, left, S03760-4) looks more like the true A. ortmanni, but I don't see any banding on the tail. Even the line drawing of A. ortmanni in Linke & Staeck's book isn't accurate because it shows the c.p. spot as a stripe like in A. regani. Richter's book, (Complete Book of Dwarf Cichlids, p. 115) has a photo of A. ortmanni, too. Unfortunately it shows a male in broadside display colors, so the vertical bars and abdominal stripes aren't visible. Compare the caudal peduncle spot with that of the two photos of A. regani below it. Probably the most recently published photo of A. ortmanni can be found in Mayland & Bork's book (p. 99 in the English version). It accurately shows the c.p. spot (rounder than in other photos) and tail bands. A. ortmanni is not a true black water species, but can be found in clear water streams. It should be easier to breed than the black water A. regani. Still it would be best to start with soft (<5º dGH), acid (~pH 6.0) water. Hope this helps. Mike Wise Geo/Len wrote: > Good evening to everyone > > Just pick up today at the local auction, 8 A.ortmanni fry`s (1/4 inch) > Not much info on them in the tetra book and so far on the internet. > > Does anybody have any info on them and a picture of them would be great > > Thanks > > George > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. > For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, > email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. > Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!