My experience has been about the same as Bob's. My Cacatuoides color up at 3 months such that I can easily tell males from females with a 90% accuracy. But they won't spawn until about 6 to 7 months. This holds pretty much for all of the others I keep. If I take a pair of Cacatuoides out of the grow out tank and put just a young male and female into a 10 gallon by themselves, yes they grow quicker than the rest in the grow out tank. I do 30 % water changes every 2 weeks. Any more then that and I upset the fish. If you ( Dave) have fish maturing at 4 months, God bless. You must do massive water changes and feed real heavy. I use black worms, tetra bits, frozen and live brine shrimp and flake foods as my apistos diet. I feed once in the morning and once in the early afternoon before I head to work. My fish also live to the 3 to 4 year age but reallly stop being good spawners after 2 years. They still spawn after that but its only every 3 or 4 months then. By then the males are big lunkers at about 4 inches and just want to eat. John Wubbolt ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!