Here's some more musings. A number of different flora and fauna have adapted genetically to seasonal cycles. Some grasshopper eggs must go through not one, but two freeze cycles before hatching, because they live in areas where a "January thaw" is reliable enough that they would otherwise hatch too soon. Some annual killies live in areas with two rainy seasons and two dry seasons every year. This causes some eggs to require a couple weeks of "dry time" and others to require several months, depending on which part of the annual cycle the parent fish was in. It was suggested earlier this weekend that the F1 problem was more common in blackwater apistos than whitewater apistos. As I understand, blackwater apistos spawn during the rainy season, when the high water brings dead lnd other detritus into the water, as well as softening it by dilution with rain water. Then they grow during the dry season, when the water parameters become harder and less acidic. Maybe the problem happens because the person breeding them keeps the fry in "apisto conditions", and the fry are genetically programmed to wait through the dry season and then spawn when the wet season returns. Or the dry season water conditions are key to a normal development. The F1s that actually are genetically adaptable to the continuous "rainy season" parameters become our breeders, and the others don't trigger into reproductive mode. This in turn reduces the problem in F2, and further in F3. See? There are so many different possibilities to explain the problem, only dedicated experimentation will give us solid leads into solving the problem. Bob Dixon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!