Hi Gary and list, Part of this is a paraphrase of a post I sent a few weeks ago, so sorry for the repetition: I've been breeding Teleocichla proselytus "Rio Tapajos". I keep them in tap water (hardness ranges from 50-150ppm) with a touch of blackwater extract. There is also a nice "leaky" log in the tank that helps keep some color in the water. Vinny says the Tapajos is a clear-water river, though, so perhaps I am doing more harm than good by using blackwater and wood to keep the pH slightly acidic. I don't know the exact pH because I havn't gotten around to replacing the batteries in my pH unit. I'll get motivated and let you know. The temperature is around 80-82 F and the tank contains some Java fern as well. My pair is in a 20 with two sponge filters with vigorous water movement (and lots of little clay pots and caves and PVC joint "caves"). Mike Wise has a back post (look for a thread on T. centrarchus) that suggessted that centrarchus might prefer slow moving water (and fairly high temperatures). While I'm trying for fairly agressive oxygenation, one sponge filter produces directional flow of water in the tank, and the other just bubbles air to the surface. I don't know whether the proselytus would be happier with more or less "directed" water flow (I was thinking of putting some of the fry in a tank with a power filter to see if they thrive in that environment). The pair I have is fairly agressive. The male is overall about twice as large as the female (about 2" vs. 3" body length), and he beats on her until she fills with eggs (you can see the bright red eggs building up inside), and then as soon as she spawns the tables are turned, and she is the agressor. When I first got them I could not tell them apart (they were both about 1.5"). Currently, the male has alot of yellow on his fins, especially the ventral portion of his caudal fin, and the female may be less intensely colored here. I will try to get a good look at her in the next couple of days and let you know of anything else that strikes me as dimorphic. In my case, mom is a pretty good parent. The problem is dad - he will eat the fry if he can, and several times I have come home to find them scattered in the tank, if I can find them at all. I have had generally small spawns of around a dozen fry, which suggests that my water conditions are not perfect. I do a 25% water change every 2 weeks, and as Vinny suggested, I may want to increase my frequency to give them cleaner water. I feed mine with fresh brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms (no problems so far, but I'm very paranoid after Mike's comments in his previous centrarchus post), and the occasional (well-washed) tubifex dinner. Good luck with them and let me know how you do! Lisa ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!