Hello Dominic, Nice to hear from you. I have brought in a few of the 'norberti sunset' The first few times they were A.atahualpa or 'sunset' and the other time they were Apistogramma sp. aff. juruensis "Pucallpa". I will need some more info from you to make a solid ID. Go to www.thekrib.com and check out the section on how to describe Apisto's in order to ID them. For now, take a close look at the caudel fin, is it rounded or truncate? Is there a spot at the base of the caudel fin? is there a spot in the anterior of the dorsal fin? These will be key in a proper ID. Tell us as much as you can. Though it does seem they are A.nijsseni from the "red edge on the caudel fin" they might A.pandurini. Lets do it right and make sure. As to the secound part of your question your dither fish seem perfect, as Mike wise pointed out a few weeks ago, fish that tend towards the upper levels are the preffered choice. And lastly, some very large male Apisto's never enter the cave and indeed as you noted just wave the sperm in with their fins. I recently had a big male A.viejita II do it because the female chose a coconut shell with a very small opening. The female even closed the "door" after spawning by digging sand around the entrance to keep everyone out! Anyway sounds like you are doing a good job of caring for your finny friends hopefully you'll have a little family of Apisto's this week! Good luck to you Dominic. === David Sanchez Casselberry, FL http://www.mindspring.com/~barbax barbax2@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@majordomo.pobox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@majordomo.pobox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!