Hello Bob My double Red Cacatuoide male does have some red in the anal fin but not much, my triple red male has more color. I agree that with color forms it's hard to tell the difference. It is always possible that someone kept breeding for a particular color and not for strain purity. God I sounded like a discus breeder. No, I don't keep discus yet. I have crossed a double red male to a triple red female to get better color. So I don't know if that makes my fish double and a half red but they sure do look nice. Which is what I keep them for. I just picked up some Norberti from a lfs. Anyone have any advice on them. I've got them in 6.8 pH and 60 ppm hardness with a temp of 78 F. I picked up three pairs and hope to have luck with them. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!