Helen, Thanks for the information regarding the behavior of the rams and their moving of the wrigglers. I've often heard that raising the temperature of the tank speeds up the metabolism of the fish and consequently reduces their lifespan. Except for the three years when I kept discus at 80F, I've been keeping my tanks at 76F for as long as I can remember. I know that the temperature can go as high as 100F in the dwindling pools of the rivers in their native environment but it doesn't appeal to me to have a tank at 80F because they're doing well at 76F. On the point that I might be disturbing the pair, that may be right. However, my intensive searches for the eggs and/or wrigglers were always from the outside and involved only looking into the tank. Except for the time I removed a couple of Glowlight tetras at night (before the rams were the sole occupants), I've always made slow gestures when I'm near the tank because I remember how my discus were skittish when quick movements were made.. In the meanwhile, I'm thinking about covering the sides of the tank so that nothing visually can disturb them. Lawrence ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!