Last night as I was on my way to bed, I spotted a female A. cacatuoides guarding a clutch of about 60 eggs- on TOP of the suction cup of a submersible heater. There were no cave structures, as this is a grow-out tank. She was only 5 months old. Dave Sanchez stated a few months ago that his Apistos reached sexual maturity in 4 months, and I said 7 was more like it. Well, now mine are spawning at 5, so I was wrong, and perhaps 4 months is feasible under ideal conditions. It should be noted that in the five months since they hatched, they were moved once from a ten gallon to a twenty that had been freshly set up with new water just for this purpose, and again last month from the twenty to a thirty, again with fresh water. They also received 10% daily changes for the first three weeks, and every other day for a month after that, before they went to the twenty-gallon. Then the routine 10% weekly. I would guess that overall, nitrate and DOC levels have been kept fairly low. Food for the last week has been earthworm flakes in the morning, and a mix of Tetraminh and frozen brine in the evening. From hatchout to five days old, they were not fed, as the spawning tank was heavy with algae. From five days until four months, they received de-cap almost exclusively. I couldn't see any males guarding the perimeter. Typical teenage boys. Hit-and-run. Also, none of the males in the tank have their extended dorsal rays yet, though I moved one along with a largish female a week ago into a ten by themselves. Today I see her dancing for him, and trying to coax him into a cave of her choice, but he's not biting just yet. I haven't been softening the water in these tanks, because it seemed too early to worry about it. Cacatuoides are reputed to accept harder water than most Apistos, but mine never have before. This female and "probably" a mate did the did at GH 5, KH5, and pH 7.6. This is certainly in the normal range for the species, but mine are many generations from wild, and have always spawned more willingly when peat is added to the water. I have a high female/male ratio in this batch of "triple reds". If anyone would like to send a few males about the same age in exchange for a few females, email me off-list. Bob Dixon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!