Re: A.maciliensis

[Marco Lacerda <marcolacerda@ax.apc.org>]

Mike & Diane Wise wrote:

> Lacerda collected fish more comparable to A. trifasciata maciliensis (sensu
> Haseman) from around the type locality, on the middle Rio Guaporé. It looks very
> similar to A. trifasciata. Its differences are minor but noticeable. Lacerda's
> fish all show a yellow wash above the lateral band. Sorry, Marco, I don't
> consider life colors to be very important in IDing apistos - useful, yes, but not
> diagnostic. The fish Marco sent me, however, do have a broader lateral band than
> A. trifasciata and the lateral spot (visible on both sexes) extends outside the
> boundary of the lateral band. In A. trifasciata the same spot (on both sexes) is
> no wider than the lateral band. The same lateral spot on male A. sp. Mamoré is
> replaced by a metallic halo effect. The diagonal band, seen on A. trifasciata but
> not A. sp. Mamoré, is always present on my male but was thin, irregular, and
> broken when he was young. The female's diagonal is still thin & irregular, but
> mostly complete. This follows Haseman's description closely (seen only on large
> specimens). Another point is that neither Haseman (for A. t. maciliensis) nor
> Meinken (for A. t. harald schultzi) make any mention of the very prominent
> metallic red spot visible below the operculum on A. sp. Mamoré. I find it hard to
> believe that both would miss this feature if it were on their fish. If my memory
> doesn't fail me, Marco sent some preserved specimens of his Guaporé fish to
> Kullander who stated that they are the same as Haseman's fish. Marco, please
> correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> I have the utmost respect of the enthusiasm and diligent work Dr. Römer has done
> on apistos, but I am inclined to believe he is wrong on this matter. (I'm
> entitled to an opinion just like you and everyone else.) I have two articles that
> will be out soon in the Apisto-Gram that expand on this. One is a review of his
> new book, and his entire response. The other is a description of the
> trifasciata-group and the species within it. Look there for more information.
> 
> Mike Wise

Mike:
I totally agree with your opinion, and add to your comments:

1. Kullander checked preserved specimens from the same stream where I 
collected your fishes, and identified them as A. maciliensis. He also 
knows A. sp. Mamore (which is exactly the fish shown by Römer) and think 
it is a new, undescribed species.

2. The localities of the fish you got (true A. maciliensis) and A. sp. 
Mamore are very close one to another, both found in two close streams 
which flow into Rio Mamore, near Guajara Mirim. 

3. Yes, A. maciliensis is much closer to A. trifasciata than A. sp. 
Mamore, like you remarked. Like you, I also doubt Haseman and Meiken 
wouldn't see the very diagnostic features of A. sp. Mamore (like the red 
spot you mention).

4. About the identification of A. sp. Erdfresser as A. pulchra, I'm sure 
Römer is totally wrong. Nearly all other Apisto specialists also think 
Römer is wrong on this: Kullander (he identified fish I've collected at 
type locality = Rio Preto do Candeias, Rio Madeira drainage as A. 
pulchra), Ingo Koslowski, Wolfgang Staeck (he published a photo of the 
real A. pulchra). A. sp. Erdfresser in NOT EVEN FROM SAME RIVER DRAINAGE 
than A. pulchra!!! [Erdfresser is found in Purus-drainage, while A. 
pulchra is from a very specific point of Madeira-drainage].

Cheers.



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