Scot.Gillespie@epsedin.co.uk writes: > 3/ Ancestrally through pulling the eggs away from parents, parents parents, > and parents parents parents, (etc.) instinctual responses are diminished. > Though this should only affect "commercialised" fish - look at angle fish. You must have joined the list since the last time this was brought up. I still say that any pair of angels given the proper water parameters and tank set-up will be excellent parents. ANY pair. Period. M. ramirezi appears to be the exception, and only with fish from SE Asia. I will agree that one in a zillion fish may have a "defective parenting gene", but nature tends to weed that out in the wild, so it is extremely rare. If, however, that is what's wrong with Asian ram stock, it is because a single breeder "lucked out" and started his/her line with that gene, and caused it to survive and spread. It is still possible that they have a specific need vis-a-vis conductivity or some other parameter to solve it. We may never know. Don't be so quick to blamme the fish. It may be easier than solving the problem, but it isn't the right solution. We had this discussion back shortly after the blackout a year-and-a-half ago. Some folks got replacement fish from Big John that had been "pulled" as eggs. Anyone who got these fish found them to be defective? Bob Dixon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!