Dr. Kadar touches the point, in my opinion. I maintain a pond (2000 gal, 10-25 inches deep, heavily planted) with nigrofasciatus, rams, black and serpae tetras, corys, and guppies. They all live and breed well in the pond. In summer days I spend hours observing the rams caring their nests and fry. The same with the nigros in late summer/autum. The female ram guard the fry while the male is ever a little apart from his family, attacking any other fish that approaches (even the much bigger nigros). With both cichlids, only the dominants pairs will ever attempt to breed, the others can guard a small space as their territory but if this isn't large enough, will seem satisfyied with it. In relation to predation, it seem that bird predation (bem-te-vi, Pitangus sulphuratus) is more a trait to the rams than the nigros. These appeared to get enough from the guppies and insects that fall in the water. Zeco (Brazil) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!