Good sunday to you all, The magnolia leaves that Brian Wolinski used are a species commonly used as an ornamental here in the S.F. bay area- I'm no botanist, but it is definitely not the southern Magnolia (i.e. leaves are smaller,not very aromatic, no thick latex like sap). When dried and cured the leaves are very woody, big white flowers in the spring. It (like most plants in the bay area) is an exotic. I have never used it in an Apisto tank but it serves well as a substrate for my poison arrow frogs. I recently tried using tan oak leaves (a California native, the tannin rich extract was once used to tan leather) in an Apisto tank and though this is just an anecdotal correlation- a few days after I added the leaves the behavior of my apistos became noticeably different- the dominant male became very aggressive and killed the other male in the tank and spawned with one of the females shortly after. I didn't test the water chemistry but likely a pH drop and was careful to only add a few leaves to the tank. I have bags full of them from an old growth stand in pristine redwood/chaparral habitat at my family's cabin- will happily trade for some Apistogramma jurensis :> Steven J. Waldron http://WWW.ANURA.ORG "Natural History, Captive Husbandry, Conservation and Biophilia of Tropical Frogs" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!