RE: discus gills

["Walburger, David" <dwalburger@epochbio.com>]

Maire - Check your ammonia and nitrite, do a large water change and raise
your temp to 30C and let me know what your ammonia and nitrite reading were.

>From your discription, I can't say its definitely flukes, if your fish had
one gill clamped shut and the other pumping rapidly when it's probably
flukes.  Do they do any rubbing on any items in the tank?

Flukes will not kill discus - but they can stress/weaken them to the point
that they can become suceptable to illnesses/parasites that can...

Dave W.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marie Weiler [mailto:MarieW@marquand.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:30 AM
To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
Cc: Ted Weiler (E-mail)
Subject: RE: discus gills


Dave,
Oh, boy. From what I've read on discus, you really shouldn't rush to
medicate (true?). Do you think it's worth trying the higher temp for a few
days and see if things improve, or is the consensus that this is definitely
gill flukes and we might as well start right away?

-----Original Message-----
From: Walburger, David [mailto:dwalburger@epochbio.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:09 AM
To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
Subject: RE: discus gills


Marie - the presence of nitrites does indicate that you have a cycling
filter that is converting Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate.  Even though
Science does not know much about the bacteria truely responseable for
Nitrification in fresh water systems, it is known that these bacteria are
slow to respond to increases in ammonia or nitrite.  If the level of ammonia
being produced by a tank increases for some reason, the filter needs time to
"cycle" to the new level.  Discus are expensive water quality indicators and
are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite levels - which makes them
sensitive to diseases and parasites if these go "south".

Bad news, your tank temperature is great for plants - not so good for
discus.  At 27.1C (80.8F), your tank was too cool.  Discus need at least
28.3C (83F) according to Dick Au - our Discus Speaker on Tuesday.  I think
this is the bare minimum.  At cool temps, discus are very succeptiable to
illness and parasites.  Raising temps to the mid - high ninties (F) is not
uncommon for some disease treatments and to head-off stress related
illnesses like shipping.  I keep my discus at 29.5 - 30.0C (85-86F) and have
never had any major illness problems.  This does cause problems for me with
raising plants.  I have almost exclusively Anubius in my discus tank - and
some vals.  

I would do a large water change and increase your temp.

With flukes, treating your discus in a quarentine tank will not get rid of
the fluke problem in your 100 gallon - though it will relieve the parasite
pressure.  The other fish in the 100 gal will maintain a certain level of
flukes which just waiting for your Discus to weaken again.  Flukes are like
cockroaches, very tough and will pop back up again without the right stuff -
Praziquantel or Flubenol.  Treating a 100 gallon can be expensive -
depending on what you want to do - there are some other well tolerated
treatments that can decrease the fluke populations (e.g.  PP or formalin).
I would avoid fluke-tabs or "Lifebearer", I have had friends that have had
bad experiences with them.

Dave W.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Marie Weiler [mailto:MarieW@marquand.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:08 AM
To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
Subject: RE: discus gills


The temperature was originally at 27.1C but I lowered it a tiny bit to
26.7C, hoping the plants would do better. I haven't checked nitrite and
ammonia for over a month because when I went to buy a new nitrite kit I was
told that once nitrate started to appear, that wasn't necessary. Sorry, I'm
not at home or I would check it now. The tank was set up December 1; plants
added January 1; discus added February 17.
Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: Walburger, David [mailto:dwalburger@epochbio.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:40 AM
To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
Subject: RE: discus gills


Hi Marie,

Rapid breathing through one gill is one symptom of gill flukes.  Flukes are
an opportunistic parasites that are often associated with poor water
conditions or weakening fish.  More important than your Nitrate readings,
what are your Ammonia and Nitrite readings?  Also, what temperature is your
tank at?

There are multiple treatments for flukes, some more effective (and expensive
than others) - the best one for you depends on your situation and
experience.

Dave W.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marie Weiler [mailto:MarieW@marquand.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:29 AM
To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
Subject: discus gills


Dare I venture an elementary question regarding discus. I have two
wild-caught green discus, which I've had for a month in a 100-gal
semi-community planted tank. We've recently noticed that the smaller one
(about 3" diam) is breathing very hard, i.e., gills expanding and pink
insides visible. The larger one (about 4" diam) seems to expand almost as
much but on just one side - the other side seems normal (tho we don't really
know what normal is). Also, we've been unable to see the smaller one eat for
the last week or so (originally the larger one would butt it away from food
and now it seems to have quit trying to eat). I've also been fighting
blue-green algae and just last night discovered I had zero iron in my tank
(we are now treating all of this), but ph has been constant at about 6.2-4
and nitrates at about 10.  Does it seem likely that the fish have just been
stressed by the algae or lack of iron or some other element? (all the other
fish in the tank seem hunky dory) or is this a disease symptom? (gill
flukes?)

Thanks for any help and advice,
Marie Weiler