RE: discus gills

[Kathy Olson <kathy@thekrib.com>]

I ditto with Dave on the water change.

I have never had Discus, but a good friend would do 50% water changes
twice a day when she had a sick fish.  She rarely lost fish, and spawned
everything.  Discus were easy for her, she even spawned neon tetras.

The temp does need to be higher.  I heard 82 a bare minimum.  The apistos
will make it but are happier around 80, they are probably much cheaper
than the Discus.  

The other Dick mentioned, is NEVER introduce new fish to your discus
tank, so if you have new fish you may have introduced some new disease.

WATER CHANGES are key though, this is also what I hear at ACA from another
Discus speaker as well, along with a higher temp.

THe blue green algae is NO PROBLEM for the fish.

Kathy


On Thu, 15 Mar 2001, Walburger, David wrote:

> Maire - Check your ammonia and nitrite, do a large water change and raise
> your temp to 30C and let me know what your ammonia and nitrite reading were.
> 
> >From your discription, I can't say its definitely flukes, if your fish had
> one gill clamped shut and the other pumping rapidly when it's probably
> flukes.  Do they do any rubbing on any items in the tank?
> 
> Flukes will not kill discus - but they can stress/weaken them to the point
> that they can become suceptable to illnesses/parasites that can...
> 
> Dave W.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marie Weiler [mailto:MarieW@marquand.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:30 AM
> To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
> Cc: Ted Weiler (E-mail)
> Subject: RE: discus gills
> 
> 
> Dave,
> Oh, boy. From what I've read on discus, you really shouldn't rush to
> medicate (true?). Do you think it's worth trying the higher temp for a few
> days and see if things improve, or is the consensus that this is definitely
> gill flukes and we might as well start right away?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walburger, David [mailto:dwalburger@epochbio.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:09 AM
> To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
> Subject: RE: discus gills
> 
> 
> Marie - the presence of nitrites does indicate that you have a cycling
> filter that is converting Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate.  Even though
> Science does not know much about the bacteria truely responseable for
> Nitrification in fresh water systems, it is known that these bacteria are
> slow to respond to increases in ammonia or nitrite.  If the level of ammonia
> being produced by a tank increases for some reason, the filter needs time to
> "cycle" to the new level.  Discus are expensive water quality indicators and
> are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrite levels - which makes them
> sensitive to diseases and parasites if these go "south".
> 
> Bad news, your tank temperature is great for plants - not so good for
> discus.  At 27.1C (80.8F), your tank was too cool.  Discus need at least
> 28.3C (83F) according to Dick Au - our Discus Speaker on Tuesday.  I think
> this is the bare minimum.  At cool temps, discus are very succeptiable to
> illness and parasites.  Raising temps to the mid - high ninties (F) is not
> uncommon for some disease treatments and to head-off stress related
> illnesses like shipping.  I keep my discus at 29.5 - 30.0C (85-86F) and have
> never had any major illness problems.  This does cause problems for me with
> raising plants.  I have almost exclusively Anubius in my discus tank - and
> some vals.  
> 
> I would do a large water change and increase your temp.
> 
> With flukes, treating your discus in a quarentine tank will not get rid of
> the fluke problem in your 100 gallon - though it will relieve the parasite
> pressure.  The other fish in the 100 gal will maintain a certain level of
> flukes which just waiting for your Discus to weaken again.  Flukes are like
> cockroaches, very tough and will pop back up again without the right stuff -
> Praziquantel or Flubenol.  Treating a 100 gallon can be expensive -
> depending on what you want to do - there are some other well tolerated
> treatments that can decrease the fluke populations (e.g.  PP or formalin).
> I would avoid fluke-tabs or "Lifebearer", I have had friends that have had
> bad experiences with them.
> 
> Dave W.
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marie Weiler [mailto:MarieW@marquand.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:08 AM
> To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
> Subject: RE: discus gills
> 
> 
> The temperature was originally at 27.1C but I lowered it a tiny bit to
> 26.7C, hoping the plants would do better. I haven't checked nitrite and
> ammonia for over a month because when I went to buy a new nitrite kit I was
> told that once nitrate started to appear, that wasn't necessary. Sorry, I'm
> not at home or I would check it now. The tank was set up December 1; plants
> added January 1; discus added February 17.
> Thanks!
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walburger, David [mailto:dwalburger@epochbio.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:40 AM
> To: 'gsas-member@thekrib.com'
> Subject: RE: discus gills
> 
> 
> Hi Marie,
> 
> Rapid breathing through one gill is one symptom of gill flukes.  Flukes are
> an opportunistic parasites that are often associated with poor water
> conditions or weakening fish.  More important than your Nitrate readings,
> what are your Ammonia and Nitrite readings?  Also, what temperature is your
> tank at?
> 
> There are multiple treatments for flukes, some more effective (and expensive
> than others) - the best one for you depends on your situation and
> experience.
> 
> Dave W.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marie Weiler [mailto:MarieW@marquand.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:29 AM
> To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
> Subject: discus gills
> 
> 
> Dare I venture an elementary question regarding discus. I have two
> wild-caught green discus, which I've had for a month in a 100-gal
> semi-community planted tank. We've recently noticed that the smaller one
> (about 3" diam) is breathing very hard, i.e., gills expanding and pink
> insides visible. The larger one (about 4" diam) seems to expand almost as
> much but on just one side - the other side seems normal (tho we don't really
> know what normal is). Also, we've been unable to see the smaller one eat for
> the last week or so (originally the larger one would butt it away from food
> and now it seems to have quit trying to eat). I've also been fighting
> blue-green algae and just last night discovered I had zero iron in my tank
> (we are now treating all of this), but ph has been constant at about 6.2-4
> and nitrates at about 10.  Does it seem likely that the fish have just been
> stressed by the algae or lack of iron or some other element? (all the other
> fish in the tank seem hunky dory) or is this a disease symptom? (gill
> flukes?)
> 
> Thanks for any help and advice,
> Marie Weiler
>