John:
I think that is great that there are so many plant nuts on this list.
HAP
should be overflowing in no time! As to your algae tank, the best
slogan I
have encountered yet is "Nothing good happens quickly." So make
changes
slowly and see how the tank behaves. How much you need to dose carbon,
nitrogen etc and traces is largely a function of lighting and plant
growth
so beware that you are going to be chasing the "limiting step" for
quite a
while as you hone nutrients, growth, and carbon levels. The rainbow of
algae you will see. There is some thought that if you compare
upgrading
lighting and adding carbon the carbon is the better option. The good
news
is that the DIY yeast method take time but is not expensive and the
compressed is expensive but does not take time. I had a bubble ladder
on 60
gal for a long time with 2 gal and to be honest compressed is not too
different. Part A is:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19239;
category_id
=2873
And part B is an airtight bottle with sugar, yeast, water, and
bicarbonate.
You control how fast by the ratio of sugar/yeast but a bottle will
last 2
weeks to a month (alternate recharge). Upgrade when you are tired of
swapping bottles.
On my tanks I underfilter. Sponge only for mechanical filtration to
remove
some of the floating crud and provide circulation. Because the filter
is
just for moving water I can wash the sponge in hot water as I am not
reliant
on biological or chemical filtration in the filter as the plants do it
for
me. My tank is stuffed with plants to the point were the fish need a
map so
YMMV.
There are several websites devoted to identifying plant deficiencies.
This
is the general idea:
http://www.hydrofarm.com/content/articles/factors_plant.html
I am not sure about your UV question but I personally do not use
actinic
bulbs in the planted aquarium.
Some of the "opposite ends of the spectrum" are Diana Walstad
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967377307/002-0430175-0081645)
featuring low tech rich substrate and Tom Barr (link earlier) where
task one
is get the CO2 to ~30 ppm... So take a look at the styles and see
what you
would like to achieve. These (or others) would be great invited
speakers!
-Paul
This discussion has been helpful.
Since my Nitrate measures "0," I'll try to raise that. If necessary,
I'll then add potassium salts.
Magnesium is next, in the form of epsom salts.
I recently added calcium carbonate (crushed seashells) to increase the
pH, so calcium should
be plentiful.
My substrate is fluorite.
I'm not quite ready to invest time and money in CO2 equipment. If
anyone has some used equipment
for sale, though, I'd consider it.
My canister filter is 2/3 carbon and 1/3 zeollite. I emptied that out
this morning. I think the carbon filtration
adsorbed a lot of minerals and trace minerals, and the zeolite and
carbon absorbed the available nitrogen.
My three other tanks have had none of the green water problem. I'm
scratching my head trying to remember
what I did differently. The zeolite is the only difference that I can
think of - I used it because I ran out of carbon,
so I topped off the holder with zeolite.
If I was looking at deficiencies in people, I'd know better how to
correct the imbalances. Considering the genetic
similarities between people and fish (and even plants, if I remember
correctly), it should be fairly easy to learn
what specific nutritional deficiencies look like in fish and plants.
Hole-in-the-head disease in Oscars, for instance,
is caused by Vitamin D deficiency according to two books (including the
Handbook of Fish Diseases) that I read.
Does anyone know if fish create Vitamin D in their "skin" when exposed
to the sun, as we do? If so, do any of the
available fluorescent lights provide the wavelengths necessary to
produce it?
John
On Mar 17, 2005, at 11:25 AM, Paul M. Wallace wrote:
John:
I agree with everything that has been posted. You need to feed your
plants!
Another version of PMDD is the Estimative Index of Dosing by Tom Barr
http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1 which might be of
interest. In some circles a distinction is made if CO2 injected. For
tanks
without CO2 a "rich" substrate (soil under gravel) can be used so that
the
nutrients are in the substrate and not the water column. If CO2 is
used the
rich substrate can be relaxed to something like Fluorite or Eco
Complete and
dosing nutrients into the water column like PMDD or EI.
-Paul
Thank you Mark. That paper was most useful. I am pasting in below some
of the points from the paper that I will try, including removing the
carbon filtration and discontinuing use of Aquasafe. Maybe Paul's
response which I am awaiting will further elucidate important
considerations.
John
(c) Enriched substrates are probably the best means of supplying
phosphates to plants provided steps are taken to minimize the leakage
of phosphate into the water column. Substrate fertilizers such as Pond
Tabs should be buried deep in the substrate where their nutrients are
preferentially available to plant roots. Substrate circulation should
be minimized to prevent phosphate from leaching too rapidly into the
water column. Avoid gravel cleaning and other substrate disturbances
if
at all possible. Eliminating substrate circulation completely would
not
be desirable (even if it were possible) because supplementary
fertilizers are usually added to the water and must be transported to
the roots somehow.
Tap water is not recommended as a source of trace elements because it
may be deficient in one or more elements, and rapid plant growth is
likely to deplete the elements far more quickly than they can be
replaced.
Certain water treatment products (Aquasafe, NovAqua) should be
avoided
as they bind metals (including iron), making them unavailable to
plants. They may also contain phosphate buffers. Simple dechlorinators
or products such as Amquel are a better choice for treating tap water
during water changes.
Carbon filtration may remove necessary trace elements from the
water.
With regular water changes and good plant growth, carbon filtration is
not necessary and should be omitted.
(i) As a general principle, avoid adding fertilizers, water
treatments, or any other products to one's aquarium unless the
products
completely disclose the concentration of each ingredient present.
Otherwise, there is no way to knowing what effect (if any!) these
products will have on the aquarium's inhabitants.
On Mar 17, 2005, at 7:52 AM, Mark Pearlscott wrote:
John,
Since this seems to be a hot topic, and my guess is that lots of
people don't know lots about it just yet, here is the original paper
on PMDD (http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/algae.html). This should give
you all the information you need to know to get your tank in balance
and all plants growing like weeds. If you need a supplier of
nutrients, try Eco-Elements (I'm pretty sure that is the name), a
hydroponic supply store up here in Shoreline (off 175th and I-5).
My experience with green water is that the tank is "usually"
deficient
in Nitrogen. So, going through the method of checking what is
missing, you might want to confirm this for your tank before adding
Nitrogen (which seems counter-intuitive).
With that being said, you might just want something fast and easy,
and
there is such a ting. Keep the micron filter or paper filter in you
canister, and add a "particulate clumper" to the tank (available at
most pet stores). With the clumper added, all the little pieces of
algae stick together, and then are able to be filtered out by the
filter. Just make sure to clean your filter after the algae has come
out of the water column. I had a friend use this, and it was gone in
one afternoon.
Good luck,
Mark Pearlscott
John Ruhland wrote:
In the past few weeks, I've had an algae problem as well. Rather
than
coating any surfaces, it simply turns my water green. While it is a
pretty color, I am unable to see anything more than about 4-5 inches
from the glass. I've added two filters to the original filter. The
pleated paper filter that came with the Magnum canister filter, and
that I was told would turn water crystal clear, has not filtered out
anything, so it must be only a few microns in size. Besides the
magnum filter, I have a Magnum HOT, and a Marineland Emperor with
Bio-wheel. At first I changed the water every day or two and added
a
bit of salt, thinking that would slow the growth of algae, but
since
that did not show much improvement, I decided to wait it out. Any
recommendations would be helpful. Anita recommended getting tiny
organisms that would eat the algae.
Fortunately, the fish seem to be doing alright.
Thank you,
John
It is the tank where I put most of the plants I got at the plant
sale
as well.
On Mar 16, 2005, at 2:56 PM, auntie.fran@netzero.net wrote:
Thanks, Barbie...I'll see if I can find one. There's a synodontis
in the tank -- got him as a bottom feeder -- but I'm not certain
which type, but he sure doesn't eat algae!
Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional.
-- "Barbie" <barbie@fishaholics.org> wrote:
Synodontis petricola eat hair algae also, and would be much more
suited to life with african cichlids, IMO.
Barbie
----- Original Message -----
From: auntie.fran@netzero.com
To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] Algae control
Will apple snails eat beard algae? And, will they survive in a
tank with blue daffodils and yellow labs?
Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional.
-- "A JACOBSON" <amjacobson52@msn.com> wrote:
Shortly after the plant auction I was setting up a 55 gallon tank
and cannibalizing plants from my other tanks to fill it. Sure
enough, the tank I took the most plants out of suddenly was being
overwhelmed by several types of algae. I immediately crammed in a
bunch more plants and tossed in a baby SAE. The increased plant
load stopped the algae spread in its tracks, and now the baby SAE,
the 5 otos, the large SAE, and the snails I no longer bother, are
slowly cleaning the algae from the plants -- I'm also snipping off
leaves that are completely algae-covered, so they can concentrate
on only partially covered leaves. And it seems to be working.
I bought a 30 gallon long tank a couple of months ago from
someone
who had let it go downhill. It had two beautiful pieces of
bogwood
covered with a dwarf java fern, but every leaf was black from
algae. Same with the anubias and the sag, and the glass of the
aquarium itself. Did the same thing. Cut off the worst leaves
(and every time I go in there I trim a little more, giving the new
leaves a chance to grow), tossed in 2 SAE, and added a field of
crypts that I bought for that purpose at the plant auction. It's
not quite there yet (crypts are still looking pretty forlorn), but
it is SOOO much better. A few apple snails are surviving, despite
the loaches (maybe there are too big for the loaches?) and they
are
going a yoeman's job of clearing off the remaining black on the
leaves.
Anita
----- Original Message -----
From: welenofsky@comcast.net<mailto:welenofsky@comcast.net>
To: GSAS Member<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:56 AM
Subject: [GSAS-Member] Algae control
Since the plant auction, I've had all different types of algae
plaguing my tank. What kinds of fish besides SAE will help control
it? Where can I get these fish locally? Does anyone have any SAE
or
other algae-eating fish they don't want anymore? I have discus in
the tank. I may just take it down and bleach the plants and/or
strip the leaves off.
Susan
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com<mailto:GSAS-Member@thekrib.com>
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member<http://
lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member>
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
Dr. John F. Ruhland
The Natural Health Medical Clinic
4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108
206-723-4891
www.drruhland.com
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
Dr. John F. Ruhland
The Natural Health Medical Clinic
4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108
206-723-4891
www.drruhland.com
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
Dr. John F. Ruhland
The Natural Health Medical Clinic
4002 - 25th Avenue S, Seattle, WA 98108
206-723-4891
www.drruhland.com
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
_______________________________________________
GSAS-Member mailing list
GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member