Re: [GSAS-Member] Fish & temperature?

["A JACOBSON" <amjacobson52@msn.com>]

After my 4th tank I bought an instant-read thermometer.  I fill my tanks with 
my generic python, so my protocol is to check the temp of the water in the 
tank, then adjust the water coming out of my tap to the same temp or slightly 
less (figure all fish sometimes experience rain).  Do a temp check at the 
beginning of each tank.

I think the instant read thermometer cost me $4.00 at Walgreens, in the kitchen 
section.

Anita
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Trish<mailto:snips36@yahoo.com> 
  To: Greater Seattle Aquarium Society member 
chat<mailto:gsas-member@thekrib.com> 
  Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:19 AM
  Subject: RE: [GSAS-Member] Fish & temperature?


  Ok here is what I have experimented. Not as detailed
  as Clay's answer, but a comment at any rate.

  I to do the "finger" test from the tap. Get it as
  close to the tank as possibl. It is cooler water to
  begin with as it takes awhile for the water to warm
  up, becasue of the hot water tank being so far away.
  When it is cooler, fish don't seem to mind the
  difference. They still swim around. I keep mostly
  Africans, so they are warm water fish. Keep the tanks
  at about 80 degrees.....So maybe yes if the water was
  ice cold, yes it could make a difference. But slightly
  cooler, I would think not. If it goes a few degrees
  one way or another, it shouldn't make to much a
  difference. 

  I have also had gold fish, and they had no heat. Which
  they are a cooler water fish. Can survive outside in
  ponds with water frozen over the tops of them! When I
  did add a heater at one time, yes the fish were
  somwhat more active, but it also shortens their lives,
  as they prefer colder water. I had their temp at about
  75, with the heater. When they did not have a heater,
  tank stayed at about 65 in winter and 70 in summer.

  Also when the temp is lower in a tank fish will eat
  less, for their metabolism is slower, when it is a
  warmer temp they eat more, and are more active. 

  Example, when you swim in a lake, you will find some
  places in the water, which seems very warm and right
  next to it can find a place much cooler. Just as it
  was said when this thread first began.

  So since it is this way in nature, why not in our
  tanks as well to some degree.

  Like I said my comment isn't as detailed as Clays, but
  it is what I have experienced.

  Trish
  --- "Hess, Clay A" <clay.a.hess@boeing.com<mailto:clay.a.hess@boeing.com>> 
wrote:

  > Hmmmmmm, again, this is an interesting issue too. 
  > My experience with
  > fish and temperature changes has been both good and
  > bad.  First, I
  > should note that I change my water directly from the
  > tap and check the
  > temperature coming from the tap by fingertip (yeah,
  > Mr Engineer uses his
  > fingers, good to plus or minus ~3 degrees).  Second
  > I should mention I
  > check my temperature to the Celsius scale (only
  > because that is the type
  > of thermometers I have).  Third I will mention that
  > I have fish from
  > Asia, Africa and South America mixed in most of my
  > tanks (Ack!! How can
  > that be??)
  > 
  > Soooo, ok, stick to the question please.  Fish and
  > Temperature.  Oh
  > yeah.  Let's look at an example a little closer to
  > home to see if we can
  > draw some possible parallels to the aquatic world. 
  > How about people?
  > You, me, the kid next door....perhaps the kid next
  > door is the best
  > example, or, even my own kids.  Kids do not wear
  > coats.....simple fact.
  > I don't care what the temperature is outside, they
  > do not wear
  > coats....unless forced to do so.  Do kids get sick
  > every time they go
  > out the door?  Nope.  Can they go out in hot weather
  > without a coat and
  > suffer no ill effects?  Sure.  How about warm
  > weather?  Absolutely.  Ok,
  > let's get to the cold weather level?  Sure, they can
  > play in cold
  > weather without a coat and do fine too.  Freezing
  > weather?  Yep, this
  > works too.  Seen it with my own eyes.  Annnnnnnnnnd,
  > I am sure if most
  > of us think back to our childhoods (which for me is
  > a bit of a
  > challenge) we will remember times when we played
  > outside in the cold
  > without coats too and suffered no ill effects.  The
  > key is the amount of
  > exposure to the outside temperature and health of
  > the individual when
  > temperature change occurs from what I have seen.
  > 
  > For instance......kids playing outside in 40 F
  > degree weather, without a
  > coat, can go for hours with no significant impact,
  > except rosy cheeks
  > perhaps.  Go to temperatures below freezing and now
  > it is a matter of
  > how long the extremities (fingers, toes and nose)
  > can handle the cold
  > before the initial effects (burning sensation) of
  > frostbite set in.
  > Yet, even when we begin to feel the first stages of
  > frostbite it does
  > not mean that one will become sick from it.  It's
  > amazing how well a
  > person can adapt to temperature changes from about
  > 25 F to 100+ F with
  > no ill effects.  
  > 
  > Now, let's expose that same person to a cold or flu
  > virus or bacteria
  > and do the same thing.  Seems that the person is
  > more apt to becoming
  > ill as a result. The temperature change is an added
  > stress (your body
  > will try to maintain its set temperature) on the
  > body's system that
  > makes it easier for the virus or bacteria to
  > overwhelm the body's
  > defense systems.  The interesting part of this is,
  > temperature change
  > will not make you ill initially, but, it can lower
  > your body's ability
  > to defend itself against viruses or bacteria.
  > 
  > Soooo, looking at this example, one would think that
  > if fish are like us
  > to some small extent they should be able to handle
  > temperature changes.
  > And, from my experience, they do.
  > 
  > Ok, but, fish are not warm blooded(Endotherms, like
  > us).  Fish are cold
  > blooded(ectotherms) Well, this is true.  Yet, can
  > cold blood and warm
  > blood make that much of a difference in temperature
  > tolerances?  
  > Warm-blooded creatures, like mammals and birds, try
  > to keep the inside
  > of their bodies at a constant temperature. They do
  > this by generating
  > their own heat when they are in a cooler
  > environment, and by cooling
  > themselves when they are in a hotter environment. To
  > generate heat,
  > warm-blooded animals convert the food that they eat
  > into energy.  
  > Cold-blooded creatures take on the temperature of
  > their surroundings.
  > They are hot when their environment is hot and cold
  > when their
  > environment is cold. In hot environments,
  > cold-blooded animals can have
  > blood that is much warmer than warm-blooded animals.
  > Cold-blooded
  > animals are much more active in warm environments
  > and are very sluggish
  > in cold environments. This is because their muscle
  > activity depends on
  > chemical reactions which run quickly when it is hot
  > and slowly when it
  > is cold. A cold-blooded animal can convert much more
  > of its food into
  > body mass compared with a warm-blooded animal. 
  > 
  > What does this mean?  Something interesting happens
  > here.  A
  > disadvantage to being warm-blooded is that
  > warm-blooded bodies provide a
  > nice warm environment for viruses, bacteria and
  > parasites to live in.
  > Mammals and birds tend to have more problems with
  > these infections than
  > do reptiles and fish, whose constantly changing body
  > temperatures make
  > life more difficult for these invaders. However, an
  > advantage of this is
  > that mammals and birds have developed a stronger
  > immune system than
  > cold-blooded animals.
  > 
  > A cold blooded reptile or fish immune system is more
  > efficient when the
  > animal is warmer.  This can be seen when treating
  > fish for ick. The
  > first thing that helps is to elevate the tank
  > temperature.  This forces
  > the bacteria to replicate faster, but, it also
  > offers the fishes immune
  > system a chance to go into high gear to fight
  > infection too. However,
  > since bacteria probably grow more slowly in lower
  > temperatures, cold
  > blooded animals sometimes intentionally lower their
  > body temperatures
  > when they have an infection. This is proven out in
  > studies of disease
  > control in axolotls.  Diseased axolotls can be
  > placed in a refrigerater
  > and cooled to near freezing and they seem to heal
  > quicker than if left
  > at higher temperatures.  So, you can see cold
  > blooded animals walk a
  > thin line as to which is better, cooler temperatures
  > or warmer ones.
  > 
  > The key to the fish and axolotl temperature impact
  > is the duration of
  > the temperature (Hmmmm, sounds like my kids again). 
  > Axolotls kept as
  > near freezing do not eat.  How long can they go
  > without eating?  Long
  > enough to fight off an infection if they are in
  > reasonable
  > condition.....but, not for significantly long
  > durations.  How long can a
  > fish go at elevated temperature?  Long enough to
  > allow ick medication to
  > kill off the parasite, but, they cannot live at
  > elevated temperatures
  > near as long as they can at cooler temperatures.
  > 
  > Ok Clay, what is the point of all this?  In short,
  > the health of the
  > subject and duration of the temperature change are
  > the keys to the
  > potential adverse impact of environmental
  > temperature variance to the
  > subject.  Temperature fluctuations over short
  > periods of time (swimming
  > through thermoclines) can be accommodated by fish
  > with no adverse
  > impact.  This is only true provided the fish are
  > healthy to begin with.
  > If a fish is diseased, temperature fluctuations can
  > either improve or
  > degrade the subject's condition.  Without trial and
  > error, I am not sure
  > if it can be predicted which way the diseased
  > subject will sway when the
  > 
  === message truncated ===




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