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Re: [GSAS-Member] A forum
Hey all, my name is Scott Frayo and I've been a member of this mailing list for
several years now, but rarely post. I've been reading this thread with
interest though because I'm also President of the Pacific Northwest
Herpetological Society (PNWHS) and a couple of years ago we faced this very
situation.
We had an active mailing list, but for many of the reasons already discussed
here, we thought about going to a forum. Sure our members liked the
convenience of having messages directly in their personal inbox for ease of
reading, but most preferred to not to have to read, or receive, messages about
things that they were not that interested in. As a board, we decided on a
forum. On the whole, I couldn't be happier with the results. 2 years later we
have an active forum that draws interest from folks around the country. It's a
great place to both socialize and get quality information to questions that are
posted. Our forum is considerable more active than our mailing list ever was
and has reached a different group of people interested in herps and increased
membership in PNWHS. The ability to post pictures is really great and again,
increases interest and participation. The old phrase "a picture is worth a
thousand words" is very true.
There were, of course, some of our members who were opposed to it and we lost a
few of our regular posters who were flat-out opposed to a forum, but the gains
have far outweighed the losses. Are there problems? Absolutely. Occasionally
we get conversations that become a bit too heated, but that's what the
moderators are for. And don't get me wrong, it's not like we have a moderator
on 24/7. We only have 2 (myself and my webmaster) who read/skim most of the
posts at some point in time. Our members basically fleece themselves and
report to us via Private Messages (PMs) any concerns they might have. About
the whole bot posting thing, we got around that by putting in a very simple
"type ____" when you register. Perhaps there are ways of getting around that,
but in 2 years we haven't had any significant problems.
Overall, our forum has increased membership, encouraged more participation, and
keeps the board more in touch with the needs and desires of our fellow herpers.
I highly encourage it. If anyone wants to check ours out, it's at:
http://forums.pnwhs.org
You don't need to register to view or read it, just to post. Hope all of this
helps. Good luck with whatever you decide.
-----Scott
R. Scott Frayo
Insular Species Conservation Society (ISCS)
Co-Managing Director
www.iscsgroup.org
Pacific Northwest Herpetological Society
2006 President, 2008 President
www.pnwhs.org
----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:40:42 -0800
> From: pwallace@u.washington.edu
> To: gsas-member@thekrib.com
> Subject: Re: [GSAS-Member] A forum
>
> Laurel:
>
> The board is considering options for updating the mailing list for images and
> searching and a forum. There are enough cautionary tales of failed forums,
> MIA moderators, lawsuits, etc to warrant some caution on the part of the
> club. I will know more shortly. :)
>
> -Paul
>
> On Fri, 7 Mar 2008, Laurel Larsen wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry I'm not up on website security stuff, but your rookie
>> comment came off a little condescending. There seems to be a forum
>> for everything out there, including almost every other local aquarium
>> club. I can't imagine that people who maintain sites with such little
>> traffic are daily updating with the latest patches, and they don't
>> seem to have problems with spamming, of course I'm also not a member
>> of any of those boards, but I did have a friend who ran a few boards
>> for years and never had problems like what you're describing. It
>> seems like there's interest in a board, and if you don't want anything
>> to do with it, then you don't have to. Bryan suggested a third party
>> site that hosts boards and his wife has experience with them and said
>> that she's happy with them. Perhaps we can give this a try and if it
>> doesn't work out, we can drop it.
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 8:11 PM, macker wrote:
>>
>>> Oh boy, spoken like rookie. PHP is easy to exploit. NO one cares
>>> what the
>>> site does.... an exploit is used to gain backend access, which then
>>> comes an
>>> IRC server used to command botnets. Or a simple mail server set up
>>> to send
>>> out spam and spoff the mailing list name, so everyone complains to
>>> the list.
>>>
>>> I can think of over 50 ideas which I see everyday with my clients
>>> across the
>>> west coast. I won't even go into details, but any IT person knows the
>>> importance of 'patching'.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Laurel Larsen >>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What abuse to computing resources would we be looking at? There are
>>>> many forums that require an admin "okay" to let people register.
>>>> It's
>>>> not as though this would be a popular enough board for it to be a
>>>> burden for someone to "okay" membership. I don't know if it's even
>>>> possible, but if it were, we could have one's member number as an
>>>> activation code or something to keep people from registering and
>>>> spamming. I can't imagine what else would be a problem, the GSAS
>>>> isn't exactly 4chan or another big board/group that would be "at
>>>> risk"
>>>> for a hack.
>>>>
>>>> Laurel
>>>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 7:58 PM, macker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As a security professional and Vice President of the Puget Sound
>>>>> ISSA, are
>>>>> you also going to install the almost daily patches for all these PHP
>>>>> bulletin boards to help prevent abuse of the computing resources?
>>>>>
>>>>> I say screw it, its too much trouble. I don't mind email, and gmail
>>>>> threads
>>>>> them anyways.
>>>>>
>>>>> - macker
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:33 PM, Laurel Larsen >>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be willing to help out moderating if it's needed. I work as a
>>>>>> receptionist in the afternoons and most of my time is spent writing
>>>>>> papers for school and surfing the internet waiting for calls.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Laurel
>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2008, at 3:29 PM, Berg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well if we decide to go down the road of setting up a forum I
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> lot of
>>>>>>> experience setting up phpbb and Gallery so I can help out if
>>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later,
>>>>>>> Berg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Bryan Nichols
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree about the "feeling like I'm spamming" argument. A forum
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> eliminate that for me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really don't think that moderating a forum would be
>>>>>>>> difficult. It
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> takes a few individuals to make sure everything stays family
>>>>>>>> friendly. With
>>>>>>>> a group like this, I don't think we'll get into flame wars
>>>>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>>>> My wife
>>>>>>>> moderates a forum and I'd be willing to moderate a GSAS forum
>>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> some help if one ever materialized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clifford Miller wrote:
>>>>>>>> When I first joined up it seemed like it would be fun to have an
>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>> place to permantently share photos. Two things I like about a
>>>>>>>> forum
>>>>>>>> (and/or gallery setup) are that:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) Some members might post more often to a forum than a list so
>>>>>>>> they don't
>>>>>>>> feel like they're spamming everyone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2) mailing lists (that lack attachment abilities) encourage text
>>>>>>>> linking
>>>>>>>> from free photo-sharing sites for sharing pictures or files.
>>>>>>>> In my
>>>>>>>> experience, most of the things linked in list archives have long
>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>> gone missing as accounts expire or things get deleted or moved.
>>>>>>>> Even if
>>>>>>>> you find what you're looking for in the archives, if it's not a
>>>>>>>> part of
>>>>>>>> the message text, it's probably gone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If anyone would be interested, it would be pretty trival (a
>>>>>>>> couple of
>>>>>>>> clicks) to add a forum or gallery setup to my existing web host,
>>>>>>>> and since
>>>>>>>> the account already has more storage and transfer than I'll ever
>>>>>>>> use, it
>>>>>>>> wouldn't cost the group anything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I couldn't volunteer myself to police a forum or gallery full-
>>>>>>>> time or
>>>>>>>> anything, but as has been said, there isn't really any existing
>>>>>>>> moderation
>>>>>>>> going on now, so there probably wouldn't be all that much needed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just offering options...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cliff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008, Laurel Larsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but I find forums to be a little more cohesive not only than
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> mailing list, but also the archive, it's easier to share photos
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is true about the photos. The same scheme that keeps this
>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> spam-free also is (for better or worse) what keeps us photo-
>>>>>>>>> free.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, it does make me think... we could open it up to allow
>>>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>>> photo
>>>>>>>>> attachments (jpeg only, say 200k total per e-mail?). It means
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>> e-mails would be larger when photos are attached. Those
>>>>>>>>> subscribed to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> digest would not get the photos, but they would be available in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> archive. If anyone has an opinion one way or another, e-mail me
>>>>>>>>> privately... it would be easy to do this on a trial basis and
>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> back
>>>>>>>>> off if it got out of hand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> registration could be filtered allowing only members to
>>>>>>>>>> register(with
>>>>>>>>>> their member number).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is a bit more tricky, because it requires synchronizing of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> database with the forum, or someone to moderate subscribe
>>>>>>>>> requests, etc.
>>>>>>>>> Much like public radio, we don't actually keep non-members off
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>>> theory being that it may encourage them to come to a meeting
>>>>>>>>> or an
>>>>>>>>> auction, or even (gasp) join!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I understand that most forums require moderation, but there is
>>>>>>>>>> none on
>>>>>>>>>> the mailing list and I have yet to see crazy arguments, rants
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> death
>>>>>>>>>> threats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not so much the discussions getting out of hand as the
>>>>>>>> opportunistic
>>>>>>>>> spam bots and other completely unrelated junk that shows up.
>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>> nice that this list has essentially had no spam on it for
>>>>>>>>> going on
>>>>>>>>> nine
>>>>>>>>> years now. Over on the AGA forum, until we added a customized
>>>>>>>>> 'plant
>>>>>>>>> quiz' to the registration (something I had to custom-code), we
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> getting 2-5 messages a day posted for Cell phone accessories,
>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>> drugs, and other inappropriate topics. And they're all posted
>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>> robots,
>>>>>>>>> so they never stop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's merely an idea that
>>>>>>>>>> I thought I'd throw out there since many other regional clubs
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> forums. :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Definitely -- don't stop with the ideas!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Erik
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Erik Olson
>>>>>>>>> erik at thekrib dot com
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> GSAS-Member mailing list
>>>>>>>>> GSAS-Member@thekrib.com
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/gsas-member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>
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