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Re: [GSAS-Member] CO2 Question



Yep,

I second the "have just done the same dumb things for a long time."  As nothing 
happens to the tanks unless I am setting up something new or simplifying 
maintenance in some incremental step.

For example I only have 2 tanks on CO2 with the cheapest inline plastic valves 
you can find.  Oh well.  The trick is to maintain a 'high pressure' side after 
the regulator, before the needle so that changing the needle valve settings do 
not effect other tanks.  I vote regulator, solenoid, needle valve, check valve, 
bubble counter, shortest run possible to the tank.  This puts most of the 
components under low stress (5-10 psi?) and minimizes the impacts of leaks.   
Multiple solenoids would go after a splitter.

If anyone finds a decent price on 4-6 way with metal needle valve I would like 
to hear more :)

-Paul


On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Erik Olson wrote:

> Kypros, do you have one solenoid for the entire rig, or do you run one per
> needle valve?  And if the latter, where do you place the solenoid in the
> flow? (i.e. right at the needle valve, right near the tank, etc.)
>
> Also, where do you obtain your metal check valves?
>
> Remember that "super experienced" can also mean "have just done the same
> dumb things for a long time." :)
>
>   - Erik
>
> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Hostetter, Kypros wrote:
>
>> I agree you will have to have three needle valves. I have a Sumo regulator
>> with a dual manifold and I have the solenoids.  It felt better to me to give
>> the co2 a break at, and they work fine for me, running about 25 feet for
>> each line.  But I know that many super experienced guys like Erik go without
>> solenoids.  Also it can kind of be annoying to run that many timers using
>> the Solenoids.  I got the swagelok needle valves, little cheaper than the
>> Ideal valves, and they seem to work pretty well. Sumo could rig it all up
>> for you, including the bubble counters-makes it easy, but not cheap.  You'll
>> love switching out from DIY, though.  I too use the black drip line per
>> Erik's suggestion, real cheap!  If you dont like the black entering your
>> tank, you can buy a small amount of flexible C02 line and just use it where
>> it it visible, and connect it to your black cheap line via the check valve
>> you will need anyway. By the way, get brass check valves. When I was doing
>> DIY CO2 I got away with plastic check valves, but they quickly failed under
>> the higher pressure CO2.  As an alternative to the reactors you can use
>> cheap glass ADA knockoff diffusers, they work pretty well too. *
>> E.g., *
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Rhinox-5000-Glass-CO2-diffuser-Pollen-Aquarium-Beetle_W0QQitemZ250305228880QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a475ab050
>>
>> Finally, if you do get the JBJ bubble counters, dont make the mistake I did
>> and let them run after the water evaporates, I cracked both of mine when
>> they were dry and had to replace them.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 7:42 PM, Erik Olson <erik@thekrib.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I think you'll need to have three needle valves for this to work.  You
>>> cannot split the line downstream of the needle valve to two separate
>>> reactors, unless each has significant back-pressure (such as a glass
>>> diffusor).  What generally happens is that one of the tanks gets all the
>>> bubbles, and the second at best gets none, and at worst, acts as a siphon
>>> from the first tank.
>>>
>>> I run five tanks off the same CO2 regulator, but I recently purchased a
>>> hexo-manifold (see attached photo) for about the same price as a single
>>> ideal valve.  It does a decent enough job so far and it's stylish chrome
>>> matches the overkill regulator I bought at the same time.
>>>
>>> In terms of tubing, straight vinyl airline should do the trick just fine. I
>>> use black vinyl from Home Depot (for drip irrigation lines).  It's the same
>>> size as airline.
>>>
>>> Do not use silicone tubing.
>>>
>>> I'm one of those folks that don't use solenoids & never have -- I received
>>> one recently & considered trying it, but am concerned about the effect of
>>> shutting one off upstream of the needle valves on very long runs to multiple
>>> tanks.  I may try it on a different regulator that only has a single output.
>>>
>>> I really like the aluminum tanks.  They weigh significantly less than the
>>> steel, and have a nice handle.  Get a 20# if you can afford it -- swap-out
>>> cost is almost the same at Central, but it'll last longer (especially
>>> feeding three aquariums!).
>>>
>>> Hope this helps!
>>>
>>>  - Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, J Clouse wrote:
>>>
>>>  I've been running three DIY CO2 setups for some time, and now I'm ready to
>>>> step up to a pressurized system.  My research to date has me leaning
>>>> towards
>>>> the following, but I wanted to check with the group before I make any
>>>> investments.
>>>>
>>>> <http://sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html>10 lb aluminum tank (Central
>>>> Welding?)
>>>> Sumo regulator <http://sumoregulator.com/PremierLine.html>
>>>> (2) Ideal 52-1-12 metering valves
>>>> (2) JBJ bubble counter
>>>> (2) Red Sea CO2 500 reactor
>>>> Flexible CO2 tubing (though I'm tempted to use something cheaper...)
>>>>
>>>> In looking at the options, it seems like running 24/7 without a solenoid
>>>> and
>>>> possibly running an airstone at night seems to be the simplest setup with
>>>> the least risk to pH (just uses up more CO2).
>>>>
>>>> I would like to use this setup to run *three* tanks.  Two tanks in the
>>>> basement using the Red Sea reactors (running off of a the output of one of
>>>> the metering valves.  The third tank is on the floor directly above the
>>>> basement setup.  I would like to run the output of the second metering
>>>> valve
>>>> into a venturi on the intake of a Magnum 350 (currently doing this with
>>>> (2)
>>>> DIY bottles).
>>>>
>>>> Any mistakes you can help avoid?  Any recommendations for a simpler setup?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Erik Olson                                                        Sent from
>>> my crusty old Linux box
>>> erik at thekrib dot com
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>>>
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>
> --
> Erik Olson                                                        Sent from 
> my crusty old Linux box
> erik at thekrib dot com
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