I've just re-posted some more material to the website which was posted here on the list back on the 15th and 16th of July on the subject of Judging Guidelines. I don't re-post it here to avoid swamping your in-baskets with repeat information, but I think that, for me at least, being able to see all of the posts on the topic together in one place, makes it easier to guage overall direction of our thinking. I hope that you agree, and that you take the time to visit the web-site and look at the "Judging Guidelines page" before you either finish reading this post, or make further comments of your own on the subject. Granted, I have selectively picked out the comments which I present on the web-site, but I have given the message numbers and the dates, so anyone who wishes to go back into the archives themselves to see that I have not tried to "slant" or "bias" this by only posting those comments that I agree with (not too blatantly anyway... <g>). ....... A lot of really good comments were made by the various people who contributed to that thread. This event is about Aquascaping, which is a concious undertaking by an aquarist to create an underwater scene in a glass box. Regardless of whether that person is a rank beginner or a seasoned expert, there is a large element of creativity inherent in the process. Whether the end result is art or not is a subjective question and not for us to decide. As Karen pointed out, a successful aquascape must also take certain technical things into consideration such as appropriatenss of the materials selected and the long term viability of the set-up. We are, after all, not looking at a flower arrangement or anything else that is really only intended as a transient object. Karen's comments about the aquascapes being based on sound aquaristics is very germaine to ths discussion. Judging an Aquascape, or providing Guidelines for doing so, has only passing similarity to Judging a fish, a cat, or a turnip (at least, in my view). The first is a "creation" of an individual (the aquascaper) while the latter are really works of Mother Nature (influenced no doubt by selective breeding and grooming). I think that the criteria used to judge them ought to be at least a little bit different. How much different I don't know... that's open to discussion here. I like what Olga posted regarding her suggestions for the various criteria, and I also like the things from Amano. I am mindfull of Karen's caution that we are only going to have access to images of the actual aquascapes, and that we have agreed to be open in what types of aquascapes we accept, so both of these lists will need to be fine tuned in order to be appropriate for our needs and conditions. Roger's insistence on Art might be overstaing things a little as might my previous comments on Craft, but both points of view are appropriate as a backdrop to any discussion of a "hand crafted" thing like an aquascape. I'm just a little leery right now, of getting bogged down in a discussion of how much weight to place of the various criteria (i.e. "points"). This will invariably enter into our discussion, but I think it should do so only AFTER we have discussed and agreed on what criteria we want the Judges to actually consider. James Purchase Toronto ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@aquatic-gardeners.org with "unsubscribe aga-contest" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the digest version, add "subscribe aga-contest-digest" in the same message. Old messages are available at http://lists.thekrib.com/aga-contest