I've been subscribed to the List for about a week now, picking my way through the archives to reach the current state of the decision-making process. I have no immediate concerns about the selection and narrowing process of the main category headings - it seems to be moving along on a path fairly parallel to my own thoughts - but I do have a couple of questions now that it's reaching the "Criteria Description - Judging Guidelines" phase. One of the initial topics of discussion centered around the entry photographs and their physical formats, but little has been said about the actual composition of the photos themselves. The closest thing we have to this was when we touched on comparisons of SLR and similar formats to the use of "one-shot" throwaway cameras and low-res digitals. Discussion was abruptly curtailed when people like Karen and Erik mentioned playing around with the lower-quality equipment in order to generate guidelines that would give the "Homers" of the hobby a fair shot at a judgeable entry. But I'm beginning to think that perhaps it's time to give some real consideration to the mechanics of applying our evolving guidelines to the format of the contest's entries. I say this because I don't get the impression that people have given true consideration to the fact that this is not a "live" competition. This "feeling" is reinforced when people suggest judging criteria along the lines of "internode lengths", "fish deportment and health", "damaged plants" and others of a similar vein. How does a judge determine such items while viewing a couple of submitted "Snappy" photos that *try* to convey a sense of the aquascaper's efforts? All of the judging in this competition revolves around the static approach of the submitted photographs. The judge cannot, in essence, move around the tank, and this severely limits the ability to accurately determine the "grace" of the entry. If something catches the eye, whether it be a problem area or a highlight, the judge cannot change viewpoints in order to inspect the area more closely. If, at the initial viewing, the fish aren't fully "displaying", the judge cannot wait a moment to see if they're merely resting and will begin to "flash" again or simply too stressed to even care to display. Additionally, a devoted practitioner of the discipline of aquascaping may determine that items such as "composition" hold more than their simplistic meaning. They may consider that "balance" and "use of space" are integral components of a more complex presentation that are affected by *viewpoint*. A tank that's designed as a room divider may "open up" and make different use of space when compared to a tank that's destined for a more confined area such as a corner. Ever seen a tank that looks completely different and conveys opposing senses of depth when viewed from left, right and frontal angles? The tanks that will be entered into this competition aren't travelling "show tanks". For the most part, rather than being designed for "frontal" viewing or with a mobile judge in mind, they will be designed to beautify the space that they *permanently* occupy. Nor will every photographer exhibit the patience of Amano, waiting for 30 or so hours and using multiple rolls of film in order to get the moment "just right", when all of the fish are in perfect position to harmonize the tank. And as if that weren't enough, we have to balance a judge's ability to effectively consider an entry while keeping in mind that the winners will eventually be published in one form or another. While it may be worthwhile to publish as many photographs as possible of the category and "best of show" winners, in order to ably present them for the "beginner's" consideration and as teaching or exposure aids, do we want to print the runners-up as a list of frontal views? I believe that we need to start focusing (no pun intended) on the submission photography again in terms of the developing judging criteria - it seems to me that we're getting to the point where one definitely affects the other. Along those lines, I would suggest two sets of photos. One set would consist of "standardized" angles for the judges' sake, placing both advanced and beginner's tanks at the same "advantage points" to establish equal judging and viewpoints and required as an "enforced" criteria for submission. The second set of photos would then be at the contestant's option, intended to show off the design focus of the aquascaper and helping to further Karen's "Wow" factor (although I realize she hates that terminology). -Y- David A. Youngker http://www.mindspring.com/~nestor10 nestor10@mindspring.chkr.com ".chkr" is for mail-bots PS - For the sake of anyone invited to join the list at a later date, it would help when picking through the archives to *not* have the subject line of every thread change with each response. The current state of the archive is very convoluted and disjointed because of this practice... ------------------ To unsubscribe from this list, e-mail majordomo@aquatic-gardeners.org with "unsubscribe aga-contest" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the digest version, add "subscribe aga-contest-digest" in the same message. Old messages are available at http://lists.thekrib.com/aga-contest