[no subject]

[krandall@world.std.com]

James wrote:

>If you want to set a limit of 300 entries, that's no problem with me. You
>get the final say in this. What do others think?

I agree that we should go with what Erik feels comfortable with.

>A $10.00 "cost per" figure for the CD-ROMS is also reasonable to me. In that
>case the earlier estimate of a $20.00 selling price is reasonable as well.

Do you think that people will really pay $20 a piece for them?  Sounds kind
of steep to me.  Erik, would you be producing these in bulk, or a few at a
time as needed.  I'd hate to be stuck with a huge inventory of them that
didn't move.  If we _do_ end up doing this annually, you have to figure
that any you don't sell the first year, probably won't sell at all.

>Does the AGA collect sales tax or have a GST # for sales to Canada?

We are working on non-profit status, and I would sincerely hope that it is
done before this contest gets rolling.

Erik wrote:

>My feeling is that we should either charge an entry fee (however nominal)
>or put a cap on entries per person, just to keep this sort of thing in
>line.  In this case, the entry fee's primary purpose is of
>"commitment" rather than financial use.
>
>If this seems too limiting, perhaps another possibility is limiting the
>number of entries PER CATEGORY PER PERSON.

The BAS handles this for their Home Show by limiting entries to 3 tanks
from the same household.  The first is $5, the others are $2.50 each.

James wrote:

>Do you have a problem with our putting together a list of contacts who might
>prove beneficial to us in getting the word out about this event? 

I have no problem with you contacting anyone you want.  I have a problem
with you saying that _I_ insisted on contacting these people.  I _only_
insisted that AGA non-Internet members not be excluded.

>? I'm not
>contemplating sending out expensive glossy brochures to half the world. 

You did suggest brochures that included color. (headings and such) Color,
_any color_ in printing is $$$EXPENSIVE$$$.  Even plain B&W, in the
quantities needed to make a meaningful dent world-wide will be very
expensive.  

I _do_ have a suggestion to this part of the conversation since you seem
not to have much experience with the organized hobby.  Most aquarium
societies have a monthly exchange newsletter.  The standard way of
publicizing events is to send a Word file attachment of your event's
brochure to the newsletter editors of all the other clubs that might have
members interested in the event.  It is SOP for these flyers to be printed
in the next issue of the newsletter.  Everyone does this for everyone else,
and no fee is required.

>Hopefully, anyone interested enough in aquascaping will also read one or two
>hobbyist magazines. I had suggested quite some time ago that we attempt to
>get at least a mention in the editorial sections of as many magazines as we
>can. And if you will review my "timeframe" suggestion you will notice that I
>allow for the four month time lag in publication for information to hit the
>news stands. This might be sufficient notification for the non-Internet
>crowd. And it should only take a few e-mails to do it, as most of the
>magazines have access.

All of that is a great idea, and well worth pursuing.  I have already done
my part by checking that Kathleen will get it publicized in AFM for us.
That's _NOT_ what I was objecting to, and I think you know it.  I was
objecting to the idea that AGA should be expected to pay every Tom, Dick
and Harry for printing out 10 flyers on their computer and distributing
them to local pet stores.

>I have repeatedly stated that I
>have no experience with fish shows. I have also asked you repeatedly to
>share with us you own experience, as a member of the group, not as the Chair
>of the AGA.

If that's not what I've been doing, then I'm wasting my breath, errr fingers.

>However, things do sometimes get said to the effect of "the AGA is not
>likely to go for this or that". For our organizing of the event, that can
>sometimes feel like someone is looking over our shoulder.

Would you rather that I let you blindly go on your merry way only to get
smacked down completely when you present impossible demands to the AGA?  

>For example, while
>I never imagined that the AGA has an unlimited budget, I was surpised to
>read from both you and Erik that the group was in great financial health and
>should have no problem funding this event. More recently however, you are
>sending out cautionary signals.

When Erik and I said we thought there would be no problem with AGA funding
the event, we were talking about an almost completely Internet event, only
expanded to cover the few AGA members who don't have Internet access (those
people can be reached via TAG for no extra cost to the contest)  The COSTS
were for a few CD's to make for the judges, and mailing out prizes to the
winners.  It certainly sounded to me like we were talking a couple of
hundred dollars, tops.  That is a _WHOLE_ different, and much smaller and
less expensive project than what you are now proposing.  

Maybe because of your lack of involvement in the organized hobby, you have
no concept of the type of budget the average hobby club runs on.  The
average local club has a total treasury of less than $5000, many, less than
$2000.  In comparison to that, AGA is well heeled.  We do _not_ have
"corporate" type money.  We have LARGE printing and postage costs for TAG.
(this is the lion's share of our yearly expenses)  We must keep money in
reserve for "rough times", and would also like to be able to have enough in
the bank to organize a national conference like MACNA when the time is
right.  We do _not_ have money to throw around.

>I have no intention of trying to make this cost a great deal of money. I
>have repeatedly stated that the major cost will be postage. There _are_ ways
>of suggesting that we choose a route which will prove less costly rather
>than depending upon ME to always be the one to make the initial suggestion.

You say that nothing I have said has gotten lost in the shuffle.  Since DAY
ONE I have repeatedly stated that I thought we needed an entry fee.  HOW
ELSE WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO SAY IT?!?!  The more costly (larger) you make the
event, the more important that will become.  I'd also like to point out
that in _every one_ of these harangues I've had with you in the last few
days, I have _continued_ to make what I think are positive contributions
where I had knowledge I thought would be useful to the project.

As far as my past experience is concerned, you made a big deal, in the very
beginning, about how this was a chance to be bigger and better than
anything that any A.S. had ever done before.  That it was time to think
"outside the box" and not try to style it on what had been done in the
past.  I _could_ have written up a workable set of rules and guidelines in
the first evening we all talked about this. (and saved myself a boat load
of time)  But it would have been without the (very good) input of the other
people here.  And it would have been based on my past experience with
established, non-Internet organizations, which is exactly what you lead me
to believe you wanted to avoid.

The rest of your post, I've responded to privately.

David VanderWall wrote:

>On Entrance Fees (appendix v):
>I didn't know we were providing volume discounts.  Maybe not a bad idea.
>I'm wondering whether we should limit AGA members to 5 tanks without paying
>the fee.  This is especially true if we are going to limit the number of
>overall entries into the contest (are we putting a limit on the number of
>entries into the showcase as well?).  This is just hypothetical, so don't
>take my head off here, but if there are 800 members in the AGA, and each one
>decides to enter 5 tanks, we will quickly reach the "unmanageable" level.
>Allow them to enter more tanks and we will reach that level even faster, all
>without bringing in any funds based on fees.  If we say AGA members get 5
>and then they must pay beyond that, well, it opens the contest up to more
>people AND the AGA member's fee has basically "paid for itself."

Why not allow AGA'ers ONE free entry and make them pay after that?  I think
that's enough of a benefit.  If they can't afford the fee, they can still
enter their best tank for free.

Karen


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