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[AGA-mcm] RE: [Aca-cadre] convention dvd bit the dust (fwd)
Just to reinforce my earlier e-mail about being able to do NOTHING legally
in a small club, I'm breaking the law just by forwarding this message.
Frederick misses my point (being that speakers freak out when having to
sign things, and also that they're very protective of what they see as
their own work).
But his little tangent on copyright of images is something any speaker
should always look at carefully. Pretty sure nearly everything on our AGA
disks are original or with permission (except for Shaun Winterton's talk
which stole a lot of pictures off other people... I know because many are
from the aquascaping contest site! also my talk on the state of the AGA
in 2003 appropriated some low-res celebrity photos off Google).
- Erik
--
Erik Olson
erik at thekrib dot com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:52:44 -0400
From: "Hamilton, Frederick (hamiltfn)" <HAMILTFN@ucmail.uc.edu>
Reply-To: ACA Board and Cadre <aca-cadre@thekrib.com>
To: ACA Board and Cadre <aca-cadre@thekrib.com>
Subject: RE: [Aca-cadre] convention dvd bit the dust
Hi, All:
The proposed form gave us permission to use the talk, and contained
assurances that the material was not infringing anyone else's rights. These
are pretty basic and bare-bones types of items.
As I watched the presentations, it was apparent to me that many of the talks
used "borrowed" material (maps, fish images, and even popular music), so I
am not surprised that the authors grew concerned about the form.
Under the "fair use" doctrine in copyright, limited educational uses of
material are generally permitted (when the quantity of the material used is
small, the purpose of the use is for bona fide educational purposes, etc.)
When admission is charged to view the material, the waters become a little
more murky. When this material is repackaged and resold, the waters become
murkier still; I am not at all sure that we would have a sufficient defense
to a lawsuit if, for example, an ACA-produced convention DVD containing
"misappropriated" third-party images or text turned fell into the hands of
the owner of the material.
Certainly, I would be hard pressed to defend our unlicensed use of Pink
Floyd's "Money" on a "fair use" rationale.
Ultimately, it's a risk-benefit analysis. The risk that National
Geographic, for example, would sue the ACA (or a speaker) for unauthorized
use of digitized maps of Africa during a talk at an ACA convention is
probably fairly remote. As a technical matter, though, both the speaker and
the ACA and TCA could have been sued by National Geographic following that
talk. When a talk which uses someone else's work without their permission
is repackaged for sale, the risk increases significantly.
In my opinion, we have the right to expect that our speakers will only use
materials which they have created, or for which they have gotten appropriate
permission. However, in fairness to them, I agree that we should raise this
issue early in the process, and not at the eleventh hour.
I'm certainly available to work on a "nicer" form. Perhaps the most
non-threatening form would seek permission to retain a copy of the talk(s)
for archival or "internal" purposes, and leave it at that. We can also work
out a profit-sharing arrangement in advance, but in such a case, I would
even more strongly urge that the presenter(s) give us assurances about the
non-infringing character of their talks.
Fred Hamilton, J.D.
Associate General Counsel
University of Cincinnati Medical Center
Phone: (513) 558-7748
FAX: (513) 558-0549
The foregoing message may contain attorney-client information. You should
not copy, forward or otherwise distribute this email without the permission
of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this
message without retaining a copy and inform the sender of your action. Your
cooperation will be appreciated.
_____
From: aca-cadre-bounces@thekrib.com [mailto:aca-cadre-bounces@thekrib.com]
On Behalf Of hawkimw@comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:12 PM
To: ACA Board and Cadre
Subject: Re: [Aca-cadre] convention dvd bit the dust
Thanks for your help on this-interesting
-------------- Original message --------------
Hi folks,
After reading the meeting minutes, I just wanted to follow up on the issue
of selling convention DVD's.
On Thursday night, I asked the speakers about having their talk on a DVD,
and they were mostly OK with it. But when I got to asking them to sign
the waiver, their demenour immediately changed to one of suspicion (the
extreme of which was that Spencer Jack made sure to physically delete his
and Jeff Cardwell's powerpoint shows off Larry Lampert's computer as soon
as he had finished presenting).
As my primary goal has always been to get a good quality ARCHIVE of the
talks, I immediately dropped all plans and legal documents, and went back
to my traditional spiel of asking if I could tape talks FO! R ME and for
the
local club's internal library only, and I got no further problems (except
from Spencer who I think now views me as a very suspicious person).
Ironically, one of the folks who didn't want his talk made available
(Willem) asked if he could get a copy of Hernan's talk from Friday night.
Go figure.
What does this mean in practical terms? First that Ron C was dead-on in
his analysis of speakers' protectiveness of their work. I doubt such a
plan will ever work unless (a) one works out a way for the speakers to
"get something out of it", (b) permission is granted waaaay in advance,
perhaps as part of the speaking arrangement, or (c) a significantly
"nicer" form is drafted. In any case, it's waaay to much work for me;
I'll stick to taping selected talks for my own archive (my primary goal
anyway) & making sure the live house sou! nd is the best possible for the
attendees.
- Erik
PS: Looking for Hernan's e-mail address so I can ask him for his
powerpoint slides.
--
Erik Olson
erik at thekrib dot com
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