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Re: [AGA-Member] RE: Low-light tanks & CO2 (Heather J Gladney)
S. Hieber:
The article I posted proves this to not be true... As expected, the amount of light goes up, but the power draw does not follow as shown by the Kill-A-Watt meter.
The T8 only pulls 69 Watts which is short of 4x32=128W (the ballast maxes out at 122W at 0.88 power factor) Ballast at rest pulls 6W so 1X T8=40-6W or 1.06 power factor.
It is shown that factory OD bulbs (Ie 54W T5) do not benefit from OD.
Given this is one ballast, Advance REL-4P32-SC, and one hobbyist, but I think it showns that ODNO becomes more efficient.
It would also be worth exploring the T12 NO, HO, and VHO where the published output devided by the published power shows that efficiency decreases. This might be where you got the idea.
-Paul
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, S. Hieber wrote:
There is probably and error in mesurement as overdriving
while increasing the
output.
sh
--- Paul M Wallace <pwallace@u.washington.edu> wrote:
A really good example of "Literature on the Web" for ODNO
power consumption and light.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21257
Note that 4XODNO T8 measured at 1.7X energy and 2.1X
light!
-Paul
On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, stephane jousset wrote:
On the topic of lighting, I have been experimenting
(thanks to an AGA member
letting me know that I only had medium lighting!) with
ODNO light (Over-Driven
Normal Ouptut).
That is basically a DIY fluorescent light set-up where
you cram the energy
needed for 2 (or 3, or 4)tubes into 1. More output for
less space. There is a
risk as with any DIY, but if you are a tad electrically
inclined, it is worth
the time and effort. I got an extra 80-90 Watts over my
55-gal for $30 tops,
and it's been going on for the past 6 months.
Literature is out there on the
Web.
Stephane Jousset
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Low-light tanks & CO2 (Heather J Gladney)
2. Re: Low-light tanks & CO2 (Heather J Gladney)
3. Re: Low-light tanks & CO2 (Heather J Gladney)
4. Re: Low-light tanks & CO2 (Heather J Gladney)
5. Re: Low-light tanks & CO2 (S. Hieber)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 19:57:20 -0700
From: Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
<aga-member@thekrib.com>
Message-ID: <433DFB10.3070300@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
Thankyou--that's good to know! I was fretting a bit
about spending
money on lights. Not just now, when things are tight
for everybody!
Adam Michels wrote:
>Heather, I've heard from an experienced source that
as long as you have
>strong lighting to begin with, like you do (I run two
96W 6700K PCs on
>my 55G and they're strong!), a 24" depth shouldn't be
any different than
>an 18" depth. I know a lot of people say otherwise,
but the source
>assured me that depth only becomes an issue when it
much deeper; he
>exaggerated and said "30 feet."
> Because my lights are 36" and my tank is 48" I place
plants like
>Hygrophila, Bacopa caroliniana, Rotala repens,
Mayaca, Anubias,
>Aponogetons, Sagittaria etc. in areas like the
corners where the light
>is less intense. I place my light-demanding plants
directly under the
>lighting, where it is most intense. You probably
don't need more
>lighting, unless you want it. It's like with reef
tanks; you can get
>away with keeping more light-demanding corals by
keeping them closer to
>the lights. The bunch plants will grow upward and
then the 24" depth
>will be more like 6" to their tips. Plant the
shade-loving or
>less-demanding plants in the corners. I know making
the tank look well
>designed is important but making the plants strong
and healthy comes
>first, right? My tank could definitely use a woman's
touch; what a
>jungle!
>
>
>Adam
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com
>[mailto:aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of
Heather J Gladney
>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:10 PM
>To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
>Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
>
>S. Hieber wrote:
>
>
>
>>--- Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I'd like to hear more about how to keep them, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Currently got BGA in
>>>my tank (bleahh!) and yet fairly high N going, so I
>>>suspect that I let
>>>my tank's TDS get too high, not enough water
changes, for
>>>discus.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>How high is high? Also, what are the phoshpate
levels?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>At the risk of hijacking the thread here--file it in
a new category?
>I've been meaning to ask about this for awhile
anyway...with your
>indulgence, please...
>I think this one's called, "not enough water
changes", in spite of the
>fact there's folks out there who insist you don't
have to.
>Last testing batch I did:
> pH 6.7 (down from 7.0 over a month, using solenoid
on pressurized CO2
>system.)
>KH 5 (up from 3 over the month)
>GH 13- 16 (down from 15-18--I think this was Mg, it
shot way up when I
>added Epsom + Seachem Equilibrium.)
>nitrate about .3 mg/l steadily,
>nitrate about 50-60 mg/l (this is down from prior 100
mg/l--when I added
>
>no ferts, it ran about 12 mg/l routinely).
>phosphate 1.5 - 2.0 mg/l, probably closer to 2 (up
from prior .5 - .67
>mg/l)
>iron test showed over 1 mg/l, more like 2 mg/l, which
I understand is
>high.
>I found tap was running GH 4-5, generally around pH
7.0 -7.2.
>Before this test, as I saw the BGA, I had been adding
some extra
>nitrates + traces, and stopped when I got these
results.
>In the last month, at water changes I just added some
dolomitic lime to
>tapwater to maintain CO2/hardness, and stopped adding
anything in the
>last couple of weeks.
>Also had to drop the light levels, as one of my
fixtures ground-faulted
>(bye-bye!)
>So now I'm running two 92 watt CF 36" bulbs, on
estimated 78 gallons
>actual (at a guess, as it's both deep and a
corner-diamond shape, and I
>didn't measure on first fill, dummy me--90 gallons
nominal) so that puts
>
>it in that awkward 2 watts per gallon range, I find
the high-light
>plants don't like it.
>I'm debating about how to punch more light down into
the 24" depth with
>some sort of fixture in less than 24" width.
>
>As always, thanks for everybody's help!!
>Heather
>
>
>
>>If the nitrates are high but the phosphates are
remaining
>>at about 1 ppm, continue dosing the phosphates but
let lay
>>off on the nitrates until the level gets down closer
to
>>about 10 ppm. Each 50% water change should cut the
nitrate
>>level in half. It might then build or decline
between water
>>changes depending on feeding and dosing.
>>
>>Some have said bga occurs due to nitrate limitation.
I've
>>seen it when the nitrates are very high. This could
be due
>>to a combination of related factors, such as not
enough
>>other nutrients for the plants to be able to use up
the
>>nitrates.
>>
>>Anyhow, try to aim for the targets and see if things
don't
>>clear up that way. OF course, physcally remove what
bga or
>>algae you can before a water change is always a big
help.
>>
>>
>>good luck, good fun,
>>sh
>>
>>* * * * * * * * * * *
>>Coming Soon in November, the winners and all the
other beautiful
>>
>>
>entries in the 6th Annual International Aquascaping
Contest. Every
>continent is represented -- except Antarctica. Maybe
next year
>Antarctica, too ;-)
>
>
>>http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
>>_______________________________________________
>>AGA-Member mailing list
>>AGA-Member@thekrib.com
>>http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-member
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AGA-Member mailing list
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 19:58:29 -0700
From: Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
<aga-member@thekrib.com>
Message-ID: <433DFB55.8030703@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
Don Smolev wrote:
>>From my experience keeping discus for many years (I
don't anymore -they
>just get too large for my 90 gallon tanks and look
out of proportion to
>my eye as well as wrecking havoc on the substrate
while they forage
>when they become adults) you should change the water
at least twice a
>week- 40% or so each time. Vacuum the tank well when
you do so. I don't
>know how often or how much you feed your discus but
they produce mulm at
>a prodigious rate. I've never read a satisfactorty
explanation of what
>conditions contribute to an outbreak of the
blue-green algae. I've only
>had a few outbreaks of the putrid stuff (not really
algae but a form of
>cyanbacteria) all within a few months time. But once
I started to keep
>the tank as clean as possible with frequent water
changes it never
>recurred. Plus I also discovered a mention of a
product in one of the
>plant treatises that reccomended Seachem's
Healthguard for treating
>blue-green. The author states that it does not affect
plants at all.
>Healthguard is a product that is used to treat ponds
to rid them of
>certain bacteria.
>
That would make sense, when BGA is a bacteria that can
photosynthesize.
Thanks! Lots of great suggestions!
> I bought it and tried it (about a capful to every 15
>gallons). It dissapates after a day and you need to
treat the tank about
>3 or 4 days in a row and lo and behold the stuff
dissappears. The tank
>smells sweet again (which it should always do).
Healthguard, I can
>happily report, has no effect on plants negative or
otherwise. The
>author also stated that Healthguard inhibits certain
other algaes. I
>have since been in the habit of adding a few capfuls
to my tanks when I
>do a water change. I can't tell you that it is the
reason that I have no
>algae problems of any kind (I do have the usual algae
eaters) but I
>suspect that it at least contributes. I know that
many purists will
>frown on the practise of adding chemicals to control
algae but my tanks
>have lush growth, my fish live long beyond their
expected life spans and
>my panda cats are breeding in one tank.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com
>[mailto:aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of
Adam Michels
>Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:15 PM
>To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
>Subject: RE: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
>
>Heather, how does one get blue-green algae? Is it
from too much light
>and not enough CO2? or too many phosphates in the
water (because we feed
>our discus too much) and not enough plants that
absorb nutrients
>quickly?
> I've heard that bunched plants absorb nutrients
faster than most
>others. But it seems no one keeps bunched plants in
low-light,
>discus-style tanks; mostly Anubias, Java Ferns,
Mosses, Grasses and
>Swords. My planted discus tank seems to get dirty and
overwhelmed with
>dissolved organics quickly. Because of this I clean
my canister more
>often, every two weeks or so. I even considered doing
it every
>week...discus, ugh.
> Also, if your substrate is real deep, like more than
3 or 4
>inches, I think adding more Sword plants might
improve conditions. Their
>roots spread out fast, and I bet they do a great job,
comparatively, of
>keeping the substrate free of anaerobic conditions.
I'm speculating,
>though, and really have no evidence of such.
> If you're serious about wanting to learn more about
keeping
>discus in planted tanks, I can offer a few tips I've
learned from
>painful experiences.
>
>1. Preferably, buy your discus all at once. That way
you don't have to
>worry about territorial issues, which can prove
disastrous. After
>quarantining your new discus, you put it with the
others. They have a
>pecking order. Either the new one get picked on until
it turns black,
>hides, gets sick and infects the rest of your fish
potentially, or it
>fights with the others until one of them gets sick.
Juveniles are
>considerably less hardy than the adults and even
sub-adults.
>2. Keeping discus in a planted tank poses some
problems: their
>temperature requirements and the FACT that they are
very temperamental
>and can easily contract diseases from other organisms
in the aquarium.
>In a bare-bottom tank you can boost your temperature
to 90+ degrees F or
>drop your pH under 5 to kill off most diseases, but
you can't do either
>in a plant tank. No one wants to ever medicate their
planted tank, but
>discus have the potential for getting sick any and
every time you add
>anything new to the tank: new fish, new plants, etc.
Depends on the
>discus, some are curious, while others are fearful.
>3. I hate to say it, but you may have to medicate
your planted tank.
>With discus, it's hard to avoid. Discus carry so many
latent diseases:
>internal worms (tapeworms and Hexamita), gill flukes
and bacterial
>infections are the three I feel I'm at constant war
with. I will only
>treat my planted tank with PraziPro for flukes and
tapeworms or Kordon's
>RidIck for an occasional white spot. Medicating for
internal worms or
>bacterial infections definitely requires a hospital
tank, because of the
>damage the medications can do to the biological
filter or the high
>temperatures required to help the medicines work.
Plants don't like salt
>either. To fight Hexamita, Epsom salt makes the fish
drink more water,
>and the idea is that they will drink up some of the
metronidazole
>medication, which doesn't dissolve in water very
well, if the discus are
>refusing food.
>4. Some of your discus will eventually refuse to
eat. In the wild they
>can go for quite some time without food. You will
learn this and wait
>for them to start eating again. Then you notice the
white, diaphanous
>feces trailing from them. Internal worms. Luckily you
can remove the
>single fish and treat in a hospital tank. They all
probably have some
>internal worms, but any minor changes, however
slight, can cause the
>worms to overpopulate and affect one discus more than
another.
>5. Bacterial infections are the scariest, for me,
because I once watched
>five of my ten discus rot away to nothing over a
period of two months
>(it takes a long time for them to die) and seemingly
could do nothing to
>stop it. Frequent water changes are the best way to
prevent bacterial
>infections from taking hold, but if you have to treat
using
>tetracycline, nitrofurazone or erythromycin, use a
hospital tank. Note:
>this disease is contagious, and all your discus have
the potential of
>developing a bad bacterial infection, especially once
one of them gets
>it bad.
>6. If you keep them clean, fat and happy, some of
your discus should
>eventually start pairing up. You'll get some runts
too. Wait until a
>pair lays eggs and you see them hatch (or at least
develop) before you
>move them to a bare 30-gallon tank for breeding. Some
discus can be
>sterile (very few); more likely, if they're laying
eggs but the eggs
>aren't developing, you have two females. Breeding
discus takes a lot of
>leg work, but you'll never see anything else like it.
>
>Sorry about writing so much; there's so much to say,
and I only got to
>touch on the potential of discus getting sick in a
planted tank before I
>became apprehensive about the length of this e-mail.
>
>Adam
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com
>[mailto:aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf Of
Heather J Gladney
>Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:34 PM
>To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
>Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
>
>Adam Michels wrote:
>
>
>
>>Medium light? That's good too. I'm sure the swords
and some of the
>>Aponogetons appreciate the stronger light (not the
laces). As for the
>>Aponogetons liking cooler water, I've had the two
Madagascar Lace
>>
>>
>Plants
>
>
>>for more than eight months, even through what I
figured was a dormant
>>period. They're in the background, behind one of the
bogwood stumps and
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>get less light. Now they send out shoots every few
days. I heard the
>>Lace plants like cool temps like you've said, but
the A. crispus and A.
>>boivinarius (spelling?) are not supposed to mind the
higher temps,
>>right?. And they're big; taller than my 75-gallon.
One of my smaller
>>Aponogetons has produced six flowers consecutively.
>> As for the discus, I don't know why people keep
them in
>>
>>
>bare-bottom
>
>
>>species tanks, other than for breeding, because they
look absolutely
>>beautiful in planted tanks, and the larger ones
don't seem
>>
>>
>as
>
>
>>sensitive as the juveniles (and they don't get sick
as much!).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I'd like to hear more about how to keep them, too.
Currently got BGA in
>
>my tank (bleahh!) and yet fairly high N going, so I
suspect that I let
>my tank's TDS get too high, not enough water changes,
for discus.
>
>
>
>> I guess there aren't any major problems with my
tank, but my C02
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>levels are pretty low. Maybe when such plants are
grown in less strong
>>lighting, compared with my 4WPG tank where I keep
all my bunch plants
>>and glosso, they don't need as much CO2. Plus, of
course, the discus
>>
>>
>eat
>
>
>>a lot of frozen foods, and the additional build up
of dissolved
>>
>>
>organics
>
>
>>may help my CO2 levels. However, I do 33% water
changes at least 2-3
>>times a week.
>> For a couple days no members were chatting, so I
thought I'd
>>
>>
>bring up
>
>
>>a subject I've had trouble finding information
about. And I regard
>>highly all of your experience and expertise and
figured you
>>
>>
>could
>
>
>>offer some tips to optimize light levels, temp, CO2
and water chemistry
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>in what I consider my low-light tank.
>> I still have one question regarding DIY CO2 yeast
reactors: more
>>
>>
>yeast
>
>
>>= more CO2?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Nope. They reproduce so rapidly they fill to
capacity, as I understand
>it, within a few hours. Also, they can only ferment
so long before they
>
>poison themselves to death with their own wastes;
there's discussion
>whether the wine yeasts make much difference, being
resistant to higher
>alcohol content--can't help you on that one, I only
used baker's yeast.
> There was a rather nice article on it some months
back in the AGA
>magazine which mentioned using protein powder to
supply traces and using
>
>baking soda to counter the increased acidity, so your
final (and
>unavoidable) limit was that alcohol content. Also,
don't bother raising
>
>the sugar content way high, about 1 cup in a 2-liter
bottle or so as
>best I recall--the yeast can't survive the alcohol it
would produce in
>any more. I *did* find both the protein and soda
very helpful tips to
>extend useful bottle life.
>I found it extremely helpful to run a whole gang of
bottles into
>auirline check valves, then into several reasonably
good airline gang
>valves (not great) and fron there to single
airstones, or up to those
>CO2 yeast ladders (your yeast bubble counters!). I
used to swap out a
>quarter - third of the bottles every week, to keep a
more stable level
>of CO2 going, because it does ramp up and down
(mostly down!). I used
>the big 3-liter bottles, I think I had about 15 to 19
of them (varied,
>depending on what cap was leaking that week or
not...) going for a
>nominally 90 gallon tank. For a 3 liter pop bottle,
I used about 1 1/2
>cups of sugar.
>
>
>
>>Thank you,
>>Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
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>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:14:07 -0700
From: Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
<aga-member@thekrib.com>
Message-ID: <433DFEFF.8040804@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
format=flowed
S. Hieber wrote:
>It sounds like your nitrates are high but don't error
on
>the other side of caution and get them too low.
>
>I would try to keep the nitrates around about 10 ppm
and
>the phosphate around 1 -2 ppm. For potassium, I'd aim
for
>about 10 but if the potassium is high, it doesn't
seem to
>present problems. If you dose with potassium
phosphate and
>potatssium nitrate, you probably have enough
potassium.
>
>You can add plants (see previous note on floating
water
>sprite)
>
Yes, water sprite sounds like a good idea. I remember
someone on list
mentioned an idicator plant they liked to show
iron/traces were low,
can't remember now what it was. (Don't think that's
the problem in this
tank, unles my test kit is wonky.)
Sometimes stem plants will just take off, get huge &
happy, and then
fall apart. There for awhile Shinnersia was going
nuts, and Bacopa
before that, and then they start to deteriorate. They
don't like trying
to grow back from foot-long cuttings from the bottom.
I do have a
surface hog--forgot to mention the happy red-leaf
water lily. Didn't
think that was the problem, as I got the same results
in winter (when
red tiger was dormant) vs. now, when it's trying to
hog the entire water
surface (and could be shading things out) and I whack
off 6-7 floating
leaves every water change. For awhile, I dosed fairly
strongly with
majors and traces, thinking that it might be chewing
up too *much* of
the nutrients, and with those test numbers, then I was
hoping that would
soak up some nutrients--maybe it *is*!
I had talked to someone quite awhile ago about using
vallisneria in back
areas as another nutrient sponge. Simply have not
been out in search of
new plants since then!
> to help suck up excess nutrients. Or do more or
>larger water changes to hold down the nitrate levels.
>
>In trying to push down your nitrates, you might
depress
>your phosphates also, so keep an eye on the phosphate
>levels and dose if you need.
>
>
Will do--thanks!
>As for light and depth. there are only two ways to
easily
>get more light to the bottom, add more lights or
narrow the
>angle of the reflectors. The latter has only limited
>utility because, you can only go so far and
fluorescents
>tend to scatter light a lot anyway.
>
>Don't worry about whether you are figuring 2 wpg
based on
>nominal or actual water volume. 2wpg for a medium
level of
>light is just a rule of thumb not a precise recipe.
There
>is no precise recipe since each tank can be set up
and
>behave a bit diff than another -- what plants you
have,
>which might be shading which, nutrient levels, CO2
etc. can all impact the
overall activity of your plants. Wpg rulesare just a
guide but now that you
have your tank set up you
>can watch how the plants that you grow in that tank
behave
>and adjust accordingly, either with more lights or
>adjusting the lighting period for some or all of the
>lights.
>
>sh
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:15:45 -0700
From: Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
<aga-member@thekrib.com>
Message-ID: <433DFF61.3030902@comcast.net>
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S. Hieber wrote:
>One thing you can do for an aquarium where you don't
want
>to have a lot of light but you do a lot of fish
feeding is
>add some watersprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) as a
floating
>plant.
>
I love the way this plant looks, too. Nice contrast
with everything else.
> Because it is floating it will be up close to the
>lights, taking maximum advantage of them while
providing
>some shade for the water column below. Plus, because
it is
>at the surface, ity can get plenty of CO2. So it can
behave
>like fast growing plants, soaking up a lot of
nutrients
>fromthe water column even in a relatvely low-light
>aquarium.
>
>As a bonus, trimming is very easy, so you can control
the
>amount with barely any effort at all. You can tear,
divide,
>snip pretty much any way you want and the plant just
keeps
>growing back and it seems to accept a pretty wide
range of
>water conditions and temps.
>
>For the sake of swords, you might want to avoid
shading
>them, but the ferns and anubias won't mind the shade.
>
>have plants, have solutions,
>
>
Always!! And as always, thanks.
Heather
>sh
>
>--- Adam Michels <amichels@trafficleader.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>. . .
>> I've heard that bunched plants absorb nutrients
>>faster
>>than most
>>others. But it seems no one keeps bunched plants in
>>low-light,
>>discus-style tanks; mostly Anubias, Java Ferns,
Mosses,
>>Grasses and
>>Swords. My planted discus tank seems to get dirty
and
>>overwhelmed with
>>dissolved organics quickly. Because of this I clean
my
>>canister more
>>often, every two weeks or so. I even considered
doing it
>>every
>>week...discus, ugh.
>> Also, if your substrate is real deep, like more
than 3
>>or 4
>>inches, I think adding more Sword plants might
improve
>>conditions. Their
>>roots spread out fast, and I bet they do a great
job,
>>comparatively, of
>>keeping the substrate free of anaerobic conditions.
I'm
>>speculating,
>>though, and really have no evidence of such.
>>
>>
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * *
>Coming Soon in November, the winners and all the
other beautiful entries in
the 6th Annual International Aquascaping Contest.
Every continent is
represented -- except Antarctica. Maybe next year
Antarctica, too ;-)
>
>http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
>_______________________________________________
>AGA-Member mailing list
>AGA-Member@thekrib.com
>http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-member
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 06:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
<aga-member@thekrib.com>
Message-ID:
<20051001134302.8572.qmail@web51706.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
It seems that light reflectds back into the tank off
of the
glas under water. so height doesn't seem to matter as
much
in an aquarium as with a terresterial garden.
Next time you do a large water change, check out how
much
light escapes the tank when the wter is low vs when
the
tank is full of water.
Also, if you're using tube, like fluorescent lighting,
distance has less effect than when using a point
source.
sh
--- Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net> wrote:
> Thankyou--that's good to know! I was fretting a bit
> about spending
> money on lights. Not just now, when things are
tight for
> everybody!
>
> Adam Michels wrote:
>
> >Heather, I've heard from an experienced source that
as
> long as you have
> >strong lighting to begin with, like you do (I run
two
> 96W 6700K PCs on
> >my 55G and they're strong!), a 24" depth shouldn't
be
> any different than
> >an 18" depth. I know a lot of people say otherwise,
but
> the source
> >assured me that depth only becomes an issue when it
much
> deeper; he
> >exaggerated and said "30 feet."
> > Because my lights are 36" and my tank is 48" I
place
> plants like
> >Hygrophila, Bacopa caroliniana, Rotala repens,
Mayaca,
> Anubias,
> >Aponogetons, Sagittaria etc. in areas like the
corners
> where the light
> >is less intense. I place my light-demanding plants
> directly under the
> >lighting, where it is most intense. You probably
don't
> need more
> >lighting, unless you want it. It's like with reef
tanks;
> you can get
> >away with keeping more light-demanding corals by
keeping
> them closer to
> >the lights. The bunch plants will grow upward and
then
> the 24" depth
> >will be more like 6" to their tips. Plant the
> shade-loving or
> >less-demanding plants in the corners. I know making
the
> tank look well
> >designed is important but making the plants strong
and
> healthy comes
> >first, right? My tank could definitely use a
woman's
> touch; what a
> >jungle!
> >
> >
> >Adam
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com
> >[mailto:aga-member-bounces@thekrib.com] On Behalf
Of
> Heather J Gladney
> >Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:10 PM
> >To: Aquatic Gardeners Association Member Chat
> >Subject: Re: [AGA-Member] Low-light tanks & CO2
> >
> >S. Hieber wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--- Heather J Gladney <hgladney@comcast.net>
wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>I'd like to hear more about how to keep them,
too.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Currently got BGA in
> >>>my tank (bleahh!) and yet fairly high N going, so
I
> >>>suspect that I let
> >>>my tank's TDS get too high, not enough water
changes,
> for
> >>>discus.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>How high is high? Also, what are the phoshpate
levels?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >At the risk of hijacking the thread here--file it
in a
> new category?
> >I've been meaning to ask about this for awhile
> anyway...with your
> >indulgence, please...
> >I think this one's called, "not enough water
changes",
> in spite of the
> >fact there's folks out there who insist you don't
have
> to.
> >Last testing batch I did:
> > pH 6.7 (down from 7.0 over a month, using solenoid
on
> pressurized CO2
> >system.)
> >KH 5 (up from 3 over the month)
> >GH 13- 16 (down from 15-18--I think this was Mg, it
shot
> way up when I
> >added Epsom + Seachem Equilibrium.)
> >nitrate about .3 mg/l steadily,
> >nitrate about 50-60 mg/l (this is down from prior
100
> mg/l--when I added
> >
> >no ferts, it ran about 12 mg/l routinely).
> >phosphate 1.5 - 2.0 mg/l, probably closer to 2 (up
from
> prior .5 - .67
> >mg/l)
> >iron test showed over 1 mg/l, more like 2 mg/l,
which I
> understand is
> >high.
> >I found tap was running GH 4-5, generally around pH
7.0
> -7.2.
> >Before this test, as I saw the BGA, I had been
adding
> some extra
> >nitrates + traces, and stopped when I got these
> results.
> >In the last month, at water changes I just added
some
> dolomitic lime to
> >tapwater to maintain CO2/hardness, and stopped
adding
> anything in the
> >last couple of weeks.
> >Also had to drop the light levels, as one of my
fixtures
> ground-faulted
> >(bye-bye!)
> >So now I'm running two 92 watt CF 36" bulbs, on
> estimated 78 gallons
> >actual (at a guess, as it's both deep and a
> corner-diamond shape, and I
> >didn't measure on first fill, dummy me--90 gallons
> nominal) so that puts
> >
> >it in that awkward 2 watts per gallon range, I
find the
> high-light
> >plants don't like it.
> >I'm debating about how to punch more light down
into the
> 24" depth with
> >some sort of fixture in less than 24" width.
> >
> >As always, thanks for everybody's help!!
> >Heather
> >
> >
> >
> >>If the nitrates are high but the phosphates are
> remaining
> >>at about 1 ppm, continue dosing the phosphates but
let
> lay
> >>off on the nitrates until the level gets down
closer to
> >>about 10 ppm. Each 50% water change should cut the
> nitrate
> >>level in half. It might then build or decline
between
> water
> >>changes depending on feeding and dosing.
> >>
> >>Some have said bga occurs due to nitrate
limitation.
> I've
> >>seen it when the nitrates are very high. This
could be
> due
> >>to a combination of related factors, such as not
enough
> >>other nutrients for the plants to be able to use
up the
> >>nitrates.
> >>
> >>Anyhow, try to aim for the targets and see if
things
> don't
> >>clear up that way. OF course, physcally remove
what bga
> or
> >>algae you can before a water change is always a
big
> help.
> >>
> >>
> >>good luck, good fun,
> >>sh
> >>
> >>* * * * * * * * * * *
> >>Coming Soon in November, the winners and all the
other
> beautiful
> >>
> >>
> >entries in the 6th Annual International Aquascaping
> Contest. Every
> >continent is represented -- except Antarctica.
Maybe
> next year
> >Antarctica, too ;-)
> >
> >
> >>http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>AGA-Member mailing list
> >>AGA-Member@thekrib.com
>
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-member
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >AGA-Member mailing list
> >AGA-Member@thekrib.com
>
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-member
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >AGA-Member mailing list
> >AGA-Member@thekrib.com
>
http://lists.thekrib.com/mailman/listinfo/aga-member
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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