you say they are a form of caetei, but they seem to be much smaller than caetei. Isn't caetei one of the smallest apistos, reaching a max of 6cmTL? My male is small at about 5cmTL. Also if they have been selectively bred for colour that could decrease the size. Ken. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!