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Re: A. macilienis


Oh, NO! not maciliensis! This is a mess!

Here we go, a little history. First off we have at
least two species in the
trifasciata-group. A. trifasciata is known from
the Rio Paraguay & Rio Guaporé
drainages. This is a large area and like A.
agassizii there are variations over
this distance. Haseman (1911) recognized a
subspecies of trifasciata from the
mid-lower Guaporé that he called A. t.
maciliensis. Meinken (1960) recognized
another subspecies from the same area as A. t.
harald schultzi. Kullander (1980)
provisionally synonymized them all as A.
trifasciata (no subspecies). Staeck
(1996) introduced a trifasciata-group species from
the lower Rio Mamoré of Brazil
that we now call A. sp. Mamoré . He mentions 2
color forms, blue as well as red
tailed forms. Now comes the fun part. Lacerda
collected a trifasciata-group fish
with a strong yellow band above the lateral band.
I came from the area where the
type material of both maciliensis and
haraldschultzi were collected. It was
sufficiently different from the typical
trifasciata and sp. Mamoré that he sent
specimens to Kullander to ID. Kullander noted the
location and calls it
maciliensis. I don't know if he meant the
maciliensis population of A.
trifasciata or considered it a separate species.
Marco markets the fish as A.
maciliensis. In 1998 collections from the same
area show that a more elongate
form of A. sp. Rio Mamoré with the same yellow
band is also found there! (The
yellow band now seems to be more of a geographical
marker for trifasciata-group
fish from this area. Color means very little in
apisto taxonomy.) Now the
questions are: 1) Is A. maciliensis a valid
species? 2) If it is, is it Lacerda's
fish, the elongate Rio Mamoré form, or is it Rio
Mamoré in general, like Römer
claims? 3) Are we  really looking at variation in
2 valid species (trifasciata &
Rio Mamoré) or actually 4 different species
(trifasciata, maciliensis, elongate
Mamoré, & Mamoré)? 4) Are maciliensis and
haraldschultzi different species? The
answer to all four is very simple and straight
forward - WE DON'T KNOW!!! A lot
more collection and taxonomic study is needed
before we can know for sure.

Now I will try to help you ID your fish. I'm sure
your red tail Rio Mamoré are
the typical Rio Mamoré we see in the hobby. Your
description of the
trifasciata-like diagonal band on the female says
that it is trifasciata. Rio
Mamoré never show this diagonal stripe. In
addition the lateral band is much
broader on Rio Mamoré and usually doesn't show
well (if at all!) on the front
part of the flanks. A. trifasciata has a narrower
band that is usually visible
from the back of the gill cover to the tail.
Compare photos in Mayland & Bork's
(p. 143) of a true trifasciata with one on the top
of p.146 of what we now call
A. sp. Rio Mamoré. If your male has the continuous
lateral band and shows the
diagonal stripe at times, then you have a pair of
A. trifasciata. If it shows the
yellow edging above the lateral band then it is
the fish Marco sells as A.
maciliensis. If the male has a partial lateral
band and no diagonal stripe then
you have a mixed trifasciata/Rio Mamoré pair. My
guess is that Dolores sent you
Marco's maciliensis. If I am correct in this
assumption, I'd recommend that you
call your fish "A. cf. trifasciata (maciliensis?)"
until we know more.

Mike Wise

WnyZman@aol.com wrote:

> Mike,
>     Last year I picked up 6-A. macilienis from Delores Schehr. Upon arriving
> home I see in the Mayland/Deiter book that it is a form of A. trifasciata.
> Although the "red tail" version looks very much like the "Rio Mamore" that I
> already had and am breeding now. The top photo "blue" male looks like what I
> have. I have heard that this is now it's own species. True or false?
>     Now! After spawning (in a 1/2" PVC tube no less) the female is leading
> around a small group of fry. BUT I have never seen these colors on a brooding
> female before or maybe I just wasn't looking that close. Besides the normal
> black markings, she has an aqua sheen to her dorsal and also behind the black
> on her ventral fin. Some aqua also shows up in part of the anal fin. There
> also is, at some times, a solid black line that extends from where her
> pectoral fin attaches to the body down to where the anal fin begins. It is
> not a lateral line as it actually does slant downward.
>     Any comments?
>         Don "Z-Man" Zilliox
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email apisto-request@listbox.com.
Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!