i recently saw something that disturbed. these "blue rams" at a shop that were rather colorless and too big to be true ramirezi. they looked like they were hybrids of ramirezi x altispinosa. has anyone seen these? tsuh yang chen, nyc, USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!