Re: Recent bargain...was A. sp. Wangenflecken??

["Phil Eaton" <peaton@hotmail.com>]

Kathy,

Thanks for your input!  I should be able to do pictures by next week 
sometime.  I'll let you know when they are ready.

What would you recommend for a second Apisto book to help with ID's and more 
pictures?  I have the Linke & Staek SA Dwarf Cichlids book now.

Thanks,

Phil


----Original Message Follows----
From: Kathy Olson <kathy@thekrib.com>

Phil,

Love getting fish this way...

On Mon, 7 Feb 2000, Phil Eaton wrote:

 >
 > One pair looks like a very colorful Macmasteri or Vijeta form I.  The
 > lateral line appears to be broken at times, and other times looks to be
 > zigzag.  The female has a distinct black spot between the ventral fins, 
and
 > the leading edge of the fins are black.  She has not yet colored up to
 > breeding colors.  The male has some red on the top and bottom of the 
caudle,
 > and red spots above the lateral line just behind the head with light blue
 > streaking in front of the gills.
 >

The description of the lateral line is classic for A. sp puerto narino/aka
rotpunkt.  The female classically has a black spot at the base of the
pectoral fin.  A black spot between the ventral fins...hmm...would have to
check that, I think that may be viejita if memory serves me right.
Rotpunkt usually
doesn't have red so that would go against it....will wait for photos...but
viejita is still a possibility.

 > Another pair looks like a Caucatoid with no color on the fins at all.  
The
 > Dorsal rays are straight spiked, and quite high.  There are 3 faint lines
 > just below the lateral line on both male and female.  The general body 
color
 > is very faded yellow, and turns darker as it goes up the back.  The 
caudle
 > is lyrate on both the male and female, and the female looks to be getting
 > very gold since I brought them home.  The male also has some blue 
streaking
 > on his head.  Compared to a tank raised pair I have, the new female has a
 > higher spike on her dorsal, and gets a much brighter color of yellow.  
The
 > males have a similar lip shape and size proportionate to their body.  The
 > new pair have much more distinct striping below the lateral line as well.
 > One oddity of note, at least to me, is the caudle appears to round on the
 > top and bottom slightly before it trails into a lyre tail.  The others I
 > have the caudle goes straight back into a lyre.
 >

I have seen A. sp Breitbinden present this way,  truly a gorgeous fish.


 > They also had a pair there that I didn't purchase that looked like an 
Aggie
 > in every way except for a lyre tail instead if the lancelot tail.

Sounds like A. bitaeniata, of course that is a guess, but from your
description fits......of course a remote possibility is
elizabethae...doubt it though usually bitaeniata come in this way.

 > I have the Linke & Staek Dwarf SA book, but I'm still unsure of the how 
to
 > ID these fish properly.  I am borrowing a digital camera from a friend 
soon,
 > and should be able to post some pic on my website soon.  Any help on the 
ID
 > would be appreciated!

Will look forward to the pictures, you have already started ID these fish
right by saying what they look like.  It use to be that all apisto's
were broken down into 10 categories of apisto's to be ID'd (now I am sure
it is
more with Mike Wise's recent work and with Ingo's book coming out).
(the ten groups were aggies, regani, steindachneri, macmasteri,
cacatuoides, borelli, pertensis, gibbiceps, diplotaenia, and
balzfleck...with subgroups/subcomplexes/complexs but those were they type
groups)


One group is agassazii then it breaks down into subgroups/complexes
A- aggie type fish with spade tail...ie aggies, pulchra, gephyra
B-bitaeniata complex/subgroup---where your second fish seems to fit...fish
here include bitaeniata, sp orangeflossen (?this may be removed and I
believe is outdated now..)
C-elizabethae complex/subgroup-aggie type fish but with lyrate caudal
fins, low dorsal fin, and ?anterior lappets (I haven't raised this fish),
also in this group is paucisquamis, and mendezi.

The caucatoides like fish helps....in this complex is cacatuoides,
jurensis, leulingi, (? staecki), norberti (as a subgroup),
breitbinden as a bridging species (the nijsenni are a subgroup) and also
now atahualpa (sunset)

The macmasteri group is not as easy (because has to be differentiated from
regani group) but from your description seems to fit...this includes
macmasteri, hoignei, hongsloi, viejita, guttata, and as a bridging
species....puerto narino/rotpunkt.

I like the idea of bridging species...ie shows evolution between groups
but I think that it is outdated now and people currently don't use
bridging species. I really liked them though.   Can't wait to do another
review of the literature but
that will have to wait for another 8months or so before I find time.

Hope this helps....

Kathy





-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
email apisto-request@listbox.com.
Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List 
Archives"!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com.
For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help,
email apisto-request@listbox.com.
Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!