Re: Buying & Selling From List Members

["William Vannerson" <William_Vannerson@ama-assn.org>]

Tim, Steve, Gary and others,

A couple of random thoughts on this subject.

>>The hongsloi turned out to be a hybrid...<<

The first thought that crossed my mind was, _How can you be sure?_  Not to doubt the sincerity of your claim, but one thing I have learned from this list is that even the _experts_ have miss identified Apistos in books and on various list members web site.  Heck, we've even seen miss IDs of miss-IDs.  I truly hope that you didn't flush down a non-hybrid, Miss ID'd Apisto.  The recent thread on finding miss-labeled gems in LFS highlights this concern.

Related to this thought was a small flame war a few months ago between folks who felt someone's ringing endorsement of one breeder was a slight against another, even though there was no mention of the second (I kinda missed the logic in that assumption).  This and the current topic brings to light that there are not many sources of quality, properly identified Apistos in the world.  

So let the buyer beware.  

But I would temper that statement with the firm belief that most of the folks in the hobby, and on this list, are honest folks that are trying their best to improve the hobby and conduct _above-the-board_ transactions.  I have no doubt in my mind that Tim most likely believes that he sent you what he honestly believed to be hongsloi.  And I further believe that you honestly believe they were hybrids.  I don't believe for a second that either of you set out to screw each other over.  That only happened because of miss-communication and an inability to resolve the conflict after-the-fact, by both parties.

I'm not trying to lay judgement on either one, or to criticize them.  I'm only pointing out, as Gary did, that some type of arbitration or reconciliation process is needed, like the AKA's.  The AKA's policy isn't enforced often, although I'm sure there have been instances.  The existence of the policy and it's acceptance by it's members seems to have an over riding affect of folks honoring it at face value.

In the Apisto world, the ACA doesn't have such a policy, and it;'s not likely to have one anytime soon.  And the ASG is not strong enough with a large enough membership base to implement such a policy with any teeth.

So what can be done?

One, perhaps the ASG can become such an organization.  If enough list members were to join AND actively take part in its activities and operations, then maybe it could become the defacto Apisto organization, similarly to the AKA for killies.

Two, perhaps this list could devise a Code of Ethics with a clause or two covering arbitration.  List members transacting among each other would agree before hand to abide by the code.  I'm not sure how a loose list of folks, such as ourselves, could effectively act as an arbitrator though.  Perhaps a few knowledgeable folks could rotate the responsibility.  But it is a responsibility, with risk and little id any reward.  So I'm not sure that's realistic.

But, as I mentioned about the AKA, the presence of a code seems to have a self policing affect.  So perhaps an Apisto code without any specific terms for reconciliation could work.  It would be a statement of intent, referencing honesty and all those good things, and a list of possible actions in the event of a dispute.  It would be non-binding except both parties would agree to honor it.

Like I said, I'm sure both parties did not set out to cause this ruckus. It came about because of disagreement that was not adequately resolved.

**Off the MAJOR soap box!**

Bill Vannerson
McHenry, IL
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/william_vannerson



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