Hi Chad I'd go along with your first instincts, and Gary's suggestion that ammonia damage appears to be the problem. I don't think that their two hours transit in a bag would be enough for the pH to drop due to excretions, and the ammonia to go "safe". Though this happens over longer transit times. Incidentally if this is anticipated, and tested for, never acclimatise the fish in the bag or the tank; any water added to the bag with a higher pH will just allow the ammonia content to become toxic, likewise water from the bag will release ammonia into the tank if emptied in there. Gently empty the bag and fish into a net, then transfer them "dry" into their new home - The change of pH will do them a lot less harm. The ammonia burn may have happened when they were shipped over from Germany, or from wholesaler to retailer, if they were "acclimatised" rather than just netted and placed into a holding tank. Scot ________________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by the Star Screening System http: //academy.star.co.uk/public/virustats.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!