Re: wild alti types

["David A. Youngker" <nestor10@mindspring.com>]

From: "Gary"
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 7:21 AM


I'm going to cut and snip here to highlight a few points:

> ...The first few spawns of these fish were in tapwater (pH 7.4,
> 140 ppm) communities...The eggs fungused almost
> immediately...

> ...I moved them to...soft water, which I took to be the key. They
> spawned every few weeks, guarded very poorly and always had
> bad eggs by day two. I tried water values ranging from 20 to
> 60ppm. They guarded like Cleithracara maronii used to for me,
> kind of 'stupidly'...

My first reaction is that the parents are instinctively "sensing" the
clutches are bad, hence the lack of interest. This is somewhat reinforced by

> ...My closest 'luck' came recently, in a totally different set-up...
> After lots of whiteworms, the usual pair...spawned ...The female
> covered the eggs in sand and guarded them with more vigour
> than I'd seen before...

OK, two possibilities here. The first is the obvious change in environment.
But the sudden interest could also be because although

> A lot still fungused... A small number of wrigglers began to
> hatch over several hours, after only 40 or so hours...

I'd say that this is your best bet towards explaining the quirky parental
behaviors. Now it would seem the focus of the problem can be centered on the
clutch's viability.

Shifting them to soft water was a good move. I can't profess an intimacy
with "Two Spots", particularly their point of origin, but it's the same as I
would have done simply because they're "Rams". Hatch rates with all of the
other Rams I've kept have been decidedly higher in softer water, so I'd flow
with the crowd in the absence of conflicting information.

Since you'd already made the move to softer water and still experienced
failure, and that particular parameter remained fairly constant through to
the partial success, I'd rule it out as a continuing concern.

Perhaps there's a difference between conditioning regimens to account for
the change? Now, I'm strictly guessing here, but you only made mention of
the white worms in relation to the semi-successful attempt. Could it
possibly mean they weren't getting that type of food before? Sometimes an
individual specimen of wild-caught fish almost has to have a more or less
natural type of diet just so its system can handle it properly - sort of a
conditioned response. It's like stories I've heard of Japanese POWs in
WWII - we were starving them by continually providing them with the
"All-American" diet. It wasn't until we deferred and served simple rice and
fish dishes that their health improved.

Could be that one of the pair may need a more "proper" conditioning period,
heavy on the live and frozen foods. Or a different type - say, more
crustaceans and insects than worms. But I could also be totally off the mark
here, too...

> ...The male guarded them while the female stayed with the
> unhatched eggs. They didn't go into the pit, which seemed
> to have no practical use, but rather into small depressions
> dug quickly in an area of the tank with oak leaf litter...

I might have been interested in their behavior while guarding an extended
hatch-out, but that's a personal aside. As to them disregarding the first,
larger pit - well, what couple ever agrees on anything come moving day? It's
not unusual for them to change their mind in my experience, and I've not
paid much attention to this habit other than to note its occurrence.

> ...Beyond the slight marking difference between this fish and
> altispinosa, I find a major character difference. These fish are
> infinitely more timid than any altispinosa I've kept or watched,
> especially when they spawn.

Well, that's enough to spark my interest - just might have to come up with
some of those.

I've been working with an interestingly-colored strain of regular Bolivians
for about a year now. They're not long-finned, but have definite filamentous
streamers from the dorsal and caudal tips (The tail almost looks like it
belongs to a huge D. filamentosus in shape.) The normal red edging is very
intense, the pectoral fins look like red and blue flags, the "egg spots" in
the anal fin (what *are* those called on an altospinosa?) stand out all the
way across the room, and the "chest" area actually turns an intense gold
when in condition. Only problem is that the only six I was able to obtain
turned out to be *all* male, and to start a new back-crossed line would take
forever. Sure would love to find some of *these* females before the "guys"
pass on.

Still, there's that very strong appeal in an extremely shy wild-caught.

As to the original problem, you've got one of the tougher ones - the "spirit
is willing, but the body is weak" type of situation. I'd not object at all
if you were to keep us apprised of any changes - for better or worse.
Perhaps we can eliminate and narrow the possibilities a little bit more...

(Umm, that's "we" as a group - no royal ties here...)

-Y-

David A. Youngker
nestor10@mindspring.com




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