Tom, You are a grandfather again. The fish you pointed me to spawned secretly, in a heavily planted 40 gallon tank. Sure do get dark in color. I have two Crenicara punctulata in with them, but they are hiding now. How long before one of them begins to show male coloration, do you think? Dave Satchell ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!