Re: Pelvicachromis subocellatus

[Mike & Diane Wise <apistowise@bewellnet.com>]

KEVIN KOROTEV wrote:

> Referring to the photos in the Linke and Staeck book; "Cichlids from West
> Africa", I find ONE picture of  MALE  P. subocellatus photos on page 142.
> There are also the photos on pages 150 and 151 of Pelvicachromis sp. aff.
> subocellatus; "A species which is often mistaken for P. subocellatus..."
>
> 1) Should my males resemble one of these photos and/or are all three forms
> currently "In the Hobby"?

All three populations are in the hobby, but Pv. subocellatus Moanda (not Moliwe)
is more difficult to reproduce. Therefore we do not see it very often. Males of
Pv. sp. aff. subocellatus (Yellow Krib) are very similar to the true
subocellatus, but are usually a little less colorful. Males of both species are
quite variable so I tend to rely on the females' colors to ID the forms.

>
> Similarly, there are FEMALE pictures on page 144 of full dress cf. MATADI
> and MOLIWE and the "smaller growing variety" of the Pelvicachromis sp. aff.
> subocellatus on page 151.
>
> 2) Likewise; should I be able to identify my females as one of these three?

The females are easily IDd when in breeding colors. Yellow Krib females don't get
the dramatic black and red body colors of the true subocellatus. When out of
brood color they are not easily told apart, although the true subocellatus
females tend to have larger spots on the tail.

> I am not suggesting that any fish in my tanks are wild caught, as I can not
> know for certain (although one set could be).  I can claim that at lease one
> set is definitely NOT wild.  I also know that there are no certainties, even
> if a fish is a mirror image of a photo. I also realize that no true
> identification is reliable until maturity....I think.
>
> 3) Can I confidently prepare to raise and breed these fish and CLAIM their
> identity based on photographic likeness?  I am warned off of this by a
> fellow subscriber to this list who reminds me that, "Color means nothing".
> (See TW, I was listening!).

Most species of West African cichlids, that are sold as a certain species, are
usually accurately IDd. This is because they are domestically bred specimens. If
you bought fry with a species/location name you probably got that species. Wild
caught fish are another story. Most "Wild Kribensis" that I've seen are Nigerian
Pelvicachromis species - mostly Pv. pulcher with occasional Pv. taeniatus Nigeria
forms & Pv. sp. aff. subocellatus. I once bought a pair of "Taeniatus
Nanochromis". It turned out to be a true Pv. kribensis form, probably Kienke, but
who knows? Such fish should never be given a location name based solely on
appearance. They can only be given a species name, if you feel comfortable IDing
them. Otherwise just call them "wild caught (genus name)".

> 4) Is there a predominant species currently 'In the Hobby" that any or all
> of my fish are likely to be with various color and size discrepancies
> explained by inbreeding and poor lineage?

The most common krib in the hobby is the Common Krib, Pv. pulchra. It has many
different color forms. When young they can look like subocellatus, but are
usually more slender.

It sounds like you are uncertain that the fish you bought are the same species
that they were claimed to be. Most krib fry under 1" look about the same to the
uneducated eye. If you are uncertain of their ID all that you can do is wait for
them to mature. Then they can be IDd. Most hobbyist breeders are honest when
selling fish. Those that aren't quickly get a bad reputation. Like buying
anything, if you aren't sure of the product or the dealer, look elsewhere.

Mike Wise

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