Hi Mike, Parents were small... Is there different strains of microworms? May be mine were too big? I know about water quality, never feed until the fry is off the bottom... I was watching them, they did not even try to eat microworms, although with rotifiers you can see them gobbling 'em up. I could rise decent # of fry, it is just soo frustrating to see them dying for nothing, especially then apisto fry do so well in the next tank. Lilia -----Original Message----- From: Mike Jacobs [SMTP:mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 3:41 PM To: apisto@listbox.com Subject: Re: ram young and Lilia Lilia.....are the parents of your rams exceptionally small? Sometimes really small fish can have really small eggs and therefore very small fry. I have raised in the past 6-8 months or so 3-4-5 spawns of rams and microworms was the first food for all but 1 of the spawns.......the other spawn I didn't have micros around and they actually took bbshrimp.........BUT.....BABY RAMS ARE SENSITIVE TO GOOD WATER QUALITY! Anyway........next time around, on the first feeding do two things.......take some live plants and crush about 1/2 a stalk.....2-3 inches and put the crushed live plant in amongst the young fry.......also put in the live plants before the eggs hatch........also put in about 1/2 of a dose of microworms..............you will find the plants will keep the water really clean of waste material which I suspect is your problem. To also help with the water problem put a sponge filter.......already seeded......in with the hatching in addition to the airstone. IT JUST STRUCK ME..........don't feed until the fry are all completely up off the bottom and swimming.....about 8 days after laying depending on your temperature........if you feed earlier they will just wallow in the live food but will not eat them and they will die because of all sorts of reasons. Now rams tend to stay closer to the bottom than say angel fry but there will be a day when you can look and see all of them swimming. After they come up and are swimming you have about 12-15 hours to get some chow into the bellies before they starve. Lila.....let us know if any of this might help or if it rings true.........in particular the "early" feeding. Mike Mike Jacobs Center for Advanced Technologies Lakewood H.S. St Pete, Fl 33705 mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!