Mike, I attach the ID rundown I posted last night. Not sure why it didn't make it to the list! Computers will function in the way that embarrasses you most (Moore's Law) My second message regarding lateral band might make more sense after reading this.. Cheers Rich Moore ------ Forwarded Message From: Rich Moore <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:51:50 +0000 To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Ap sp. Glaser Mike, I attach a more detailed ID rundown for the pair of Glasers (I have used your ID worksheet as archived at thekrib). Some other specific traits I have noted include strong pink hairlines at the junction of all fins to the body, and a pinkish patina to the tail. At a general level, use the Meinkeni picture pp90 of Linke & Staeck¹s American Cichlids I Dwarf Cichlids, substitute a truncate tail, a non-trailing dorsal and remove the lateral band. Add a faint suborbital stripe, faint V shaped lateral bands, 3 hairline irridescent blue spotted lines above where a lateral line might appear, and the overall black speckling (almost Koi-like !). Again, your help and time are greatly appreciated... Warm regards Rich Source: * What was it called when you got it? Ap sp. Graser * Was it wild caught or domestic? Unknown * What other fish (if any) - not just the cichlids - came in the shipment with it? ³Larini² (?), ³Galaxa² (?), Moae Size: * How large is it? (Use inches or metric, it doesn't matter to me.) 4cm * Does it appear to be an adult or a juvenile? Adult Body shape: * It is elongate and slightly compressed like A. cacatuoides Male's dorsal fin size and shape: * Name a species with a similar fin shape. Gibbiceps/Hypolatae * Is it high or low? Lowish * Does it have any extended spines? No * Is the back tip extended (at least as far back as mid-caudal)? No * Is the top edge even (like A. agassizii)? No * Is the top edge serrated (saw edged) (like A. macmasteri) ? Yes * Is the top edge fused together, sail-like, (like A. pertensis)? or No * Does the top have extended front spiny lappets (like A. cacatuoides)? No Lateral spot: * Does either sex, especially the female, show a dark lateral spot or patch on its side? Yes * If so, is it very large or nearly the same width as the lateral band? Lateral band very hard to distinguish Lateral band: (usually better seen on females): * What other species has a similar band? Norberti/Nijseni * Is it broad (like A. agassizii)? No * Is it narrow (like A. steindachneri)? No * Is it broken into spots or a continuous band? No * If continuous, is it straight & even (like A. agassizii)? No * Is it zipper like (like A. sp. Rotpunkt/Red-spot)? or No * Is it zigzag shape (like A. borellii & A. macmasteri)? No Caudal (peduncle) spot: * Is there a spot/patch at the base of the tail? Yes * If so, describe its size and shape. Thin, tall * Does the lateral band merge with it or stop before it gets to it? stops Tail (male's): * What other species has a similarly shaped tail? Geisleri * What shape is it? round, squared off in the back, spade shaped or lyretailed? Truncate * Are there any extended tips on the top and bottom in the male? No * Are there any any spots or pattern in the tail fin? A pinkish patina, some blue irridescent spotting, random black flecking Finally, list the dwarf cichlid books you have so that I can refer you to certain pictures. Dwarf Cichlids Linke/Staeck ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, email@example.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email firstname.lastname@example.org. Search http://altavista.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!