hello Eric, Sp Breitbinden translates into face turns black after spawning, lol, just kidding. I have had this happen on 2 male apistos i have had over the years. It did happen on a male Viejita II and also on a Male MacMasteri Double Red. Both fish come out of the same complex so maybe its a complex type thing. I dont really know, all i do know is that both fish lived for a long time, over 6 months each and did NOT spawn again after having this happen to them. Hope this helps some what, i would like to know what it is myself!! Tundra John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com. Search http://www.digital.com for "Apistogramma Mailing List Archives"!