sorry for the double post NM

[David Sanchez <barbax2@yahoo.com>]

--- David Sanchez <barbax2@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Scott you are 100% correct. Fish people use the
> excuse
> of pH way too much. In my experience it is the level
> of metabolic waste that accumulates in older water
> that is "shock" to fish. When we move fish from say
> old high metabolic waste water ( high DOC's ) to
> clean
> fresh low metabolic waste water ( low DOC's) thtas
> when we see the so called shock. Look in the
> archives
> from some of my recent posts on the subject I have
> shared a wealth of my knowledge on this matter. I
> have
> learned as you have begun to see that clean water is
> a
> key componant in fish breeding. Bacteria levels,
> organic waste etc all are very harmfull to fish eggs
> and fry. Think of it as a nursery and you wouldnt
> leave a baby in dirty diapers you get diaper rash
> and
> other health problems do to the unclean conditions.
> To
> fish this effect is that much more pronounced
> because
> they cannot leave their environment they live in
> water.
> 
> Dave
> --- Scott <zerelli@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > How does pH kill a fish? I mean other than causing
> a
> > change from ammonia to ammonium. I really think
> > people
> > tend to latch onto that idea without a basis. I
> was
> > in
> > a pet shop the other day and one of the employees
> > was
> > complaining about how hard it was to keep discus
> > since
> > she had to constantly mess with pH. I toldher to
> > just
> > leave it alone and she looked at me like I was
> nuts.
> > I
> > personally watched two pairs spawn repeatedly in
> > water
> > well over 7.5 pH. She didn't believe it and was
> sure
> > they cannot survive in such water. I am just
> curious
> > and not saying that it is not true. Someone
> educate
> > me
> > I need to learn something not computer related
> this
> > week (work has been a pain).
> > 
> > 
> > --- Max Gallade <mgallade@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think Mike J. posted here before that Rams
> like
> > > perfect conditions to 
> > > raise their youngens in.The question is what is
> > > perfect?I've been succesful 
> > > with Rams in a species only tank(10g).  I move
> the
> > > female  out after 
> > > hatching and let the male take over the brood
> > > care.My males have been 
> > > wonderful fathers so far and haven't eaten a fry
> > > yet.We wrote a Ram breeding 
> > > journal on the TDA site (which is now back
> > > online).It contains a lot of 
> > > helpful tips I got from people here and  a link
> to
> > > the Z-man Ram breeding 
> > > article with more great tips.
> > > HTH
> > > Max
> > > 
> > > Visit "The Digital Aquarium" and L&M Tropicals
> at:
> > > http://clix.to/Apisto
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >From: "Joe Anderson"
> <the_submariner@hotmail.com>
> > > >Reply-To: apisto@listbox.com
> > > >To: apisto@listbox.com
> > > >Subject: Re: blue ram sudden fry death
> > > >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:01:28 +0000
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >my laetacara pair does the same thing. I'd be
> > prone
> > > to agree with thsi
> > > >conclusion.  if it were anything other than the
> > > parents, then a gradual
> > > >visual clue would should have been more
> evident.
> > > >my laetacara eat either the eggs or the fry due
> > to
> > > temp fluctuations or
> > > >suddent changes in area outside tank.  Very
> > > peculiar pair this one.  ive
> > > >only been able to raise one batch to free
> > swimming,
> > > by taking them away 
> > > >from
> > > >parents.
> > > >My 2 cents,
> > > >Joe Anderson
> > > >Oklahoma City Aquarium Association
> > > >www.okcaa.aquariumsociety.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----Original Message Follows----
> > > >From: Brian Ahmer <ahmer.1@osu.edu>
> > > >Reply-To: apisto@listbox.com
> > > >To: apisto@listbox.com
> > > >Subject: Re: blue ram sudden fry death
> > > >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:44:04 -0400
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >My blue ram fry always disappear after a few
> > days. 
> > > I assume either
> > > >the parents get stressed about protecting them
> > from
> > > other fish and
> > > >then eat them, or that other fish eat them.  I
> > > think since they all
> > > >disappear at once and it's often before they're
> > > swimming around a
> > > >lot, I think the parents are eating them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>[Max Gallade]
> > > >>I can only think of three possibilities
> > > ,starvation,predation or ph swing.
> > > >>I noticed that my Ram fry don't pick that much
> > on
> > > Java moss or Algae for
> > > >>Microorganisms.
> > > >>
> > > >>[John McCrone]
> > > >>I was going to mention that the fry seemed to
> be
> > > looking for food in the
> > > >>water column rather than picking like my
> apisto
> > > fry have done in the past.
> > > >>I
> > > >>assume that with starvation I would have seen
> a
> > > more gradual die-off as at
> > > >>least some should have found drifting food.
> > > >>
> > > >>Thanks for the offer of microworms - but I
> live
> > in
> > > UK and they might not
> > > >>travel. I did set up an infusoria culture, but
> > it
> > > hadn't got going. My 
> > > >>plan
> > > >>was to mash up some daphnia and mosquito larva
> > and
> > > see if they would eat
> > > >>that - but then they all disappeared.
> > > >>
> > > >>[Max Gallade]
> > > >>Do you use CO2 injection during the day and
> > night
> > > in your tank?
> > > >>Any other fish in the tank?
> > > >>
> > > >>[John McCrone]
> > > >>No CO2. No other fish. If it is pH swing, then
> > why
> > > are they fine for a few
> > > >>days then wham?
> > > >>
> > > >>Another odd thing was that I couldn't spot any
> > > dead bodies - even in the
> > > >>breeding trap I could only find one. Perhaps
> > > snails made fast work of 
> > > >>them.
> > > >>It's all very strange.
> > > >>
> > > >>Cheers
> > >
> >
>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>from John McCrone
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> 
=== message truncated ===


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