Re: blue ram sudden fry death now pH myth

[David Sanchez <barbax2@yahoo.com>]

Scott you are 100% correct. Fish people use the excuse
of pH way too much. In my experience it is the level
of metabolic waste that accumulates in older water
that is "shock" to fish. When we move fish from say
old high metabolic waste water ( high DOC's ) to clean
fresh low metabolic waste water ( low DOC's) thtas
when we see the so called shock. Look in the archives
from some of my recent posts on the subject I have
shared a wealth of my knowledge on this matter. I have
learned as you have begun to see that clean water is a
key componant in fish breeding. Bacteria levels,
organic waste etc all are very harmfull to fish eggs
and fry. Think of it as a nursery and you wouldnt
leave a baby in dirty diapers you get diaper rash and
other health problems do to the unclean conditions. To
fish this effect is that much more pronounced because
they cannot leave their environment they live in
water.

Dave
--- Scott <zerelli@yahoo.com> wrote:
> How does pH kill a fish? I mean other than causing a
> change from ammonia to ammonium. I really think
> people
> tend to latch onto that idea without a basis. I was
> in
> a pet shop the other day and one of the employees
> was
> complaining about how hard it was to keep discus
> since
> she had to constantly mess with pH. I toldher to
> just
> leave it alone and she looked at me like I was nuts.
> I
> personally watched two pairs spawn repeatedly in
> water
> well over 7.5 pH. She didn't believe it and was sure
> they cannot survive in such water. I am just curious
> and not saying that it is not true. Someone educate
> me
> I need to learn something not computer related this
> week (work has been a pain).
> 
> 
> --- Max Gallade <mgallade@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I think Mike J. posted here before that Rams like
> > perfect conditions to 
> > raise their youngens in.The question is what is
> > perfect?I've been succesful 
> > with Rams in a species only tank(10g).  I move the
> > female  out after 
> > hatching and let the male take over the brood
> > care.My males have been 
> > wonderful fathers so far and haven't eaten a fry
> > yet.We wrote a Ram breeding 
> > journal on the TDA site (which is now back
> > online).It contains a lot of 
> > helpful tips I got from people here and  a link to
> > the Z-man Ram breeding 
> > article with more great tips.
> > HTH
> > Max
> > 
> > Visit "The Digital Aquarium" and L&M Tropicals at:
> > http://clix.to/Apisto
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >From: "Joe Anderson" <the_submariner@hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: apisto@listbox.com
> > >To: apisto@listbox.com
> > >Subject: Re: blue ram sudden fry death
> > >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:01:28 +0000
> > >
> > >
> > >my laetacara pair does the same thing. I'd be
> prone
> > to agree with thsi
> > >conclusion.  if it were anything other than the
> > parents, then a gradual
> > >visual clue would should have been more evident.
> > >my laetacara eat either the eggs or the fry due
> to
> > temp fluctuations or
> > >suddent changes in area outside tank.  Very
> > peculiar pair this one.  ive
> > >only been able to raise one batch to free
> swimming,
> > by taking them away 
> > >from
> > >parents.
> > >My 2 cents,
> > >Joe Anderson
> > >Oklahoma City Aquarium Association
> > >www.okcaa.aquariumsociety.com
> > >
> > >
> > >----Original Message Follows----
> > >From: Brian Ahmer <ahmer.1@osu.edu>
> > >Reply-To: apisto@listbox.com
> > >To: apisto@listbox.com
> > >Subject: Re: blue ram sudden fry death
> > >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:44:04 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >My blue ram fry always disappear after a few
> days. 
> > I assume either
> > >the parents get stressed about protecting them
> from
> > other fish and
> > >then eat them, or that other fish eat them.  I
> > think since they all
> > >disappear at once and it's often before they're
> > swimming around a
> > >lot, I think the parents are eating them.
> > >
> > >
> > >>[Max Gallade]
> > >>I can only think of three possibilities
> > ,starvation,predation or ph swing.
> > >>I noticed that my Ram fry don't pick that much
> on
> > Java moss or Algae for
> > >>Microorganisms.
> > >>
> > >>[John McCrone]
> > >>I was going to mention that the fry seemed to be
> > looking for food in the
> > >>water column rather than picking like my apisto
> > fry have done in the past.
> > >>I
> > >>assume that with starvation I would have seen a
> > more gradual die-off as at
> > >>least some should have found drifting food.
> > >>
> > >>Thanks for the offer of microworms - but I live
> in
> > UK and they might not
> > >>travel. I did set up an infusoria culture, but
> it
> > hadn't got going. My 
> > >>plan
> > >>was to mash up some daphnia and mosquito larva
> and
> > see if they would eat
> > >>that - but then they all disappeared.
> > >>
> > >>[Max Gallade]
> > >>Do you use CO2 injection during the day and
> night
> > in your tank?
> > >>Any other fish in the tank?
> > >>
> > >>[John McCrone]
> > >>No CO2. No other fish. If it is pH swing, then
> why
> > are they fine for a few
> > >>days then wham?
> > >>
> > >>Another odd thing was that I couldn't spot any
> > dead bodies - even in the
> > >>breeding trap I could only find one. Perhaps
> > snails made fast work of 
> > >>them.
> > >>It's all very strange.
> > >>
> > >>Cheers
> >
>
>>------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>from John McCrone
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >Brian Ahmer
> > >ahmer.1@osu.edu
> > >http://www.angelfire.com/or/biggestbri
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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