Assuming you start out with healthy stock ( a lot of lfs stock is not), I've found rams to be as hardy as the next fish. They are not as fragile as so many people seem so eager to say they are. Still, I wouldn't advocate putting them in hard, alkaline water. They come from and prefer soft, acid water, and you'll get the best out of them in those conditions. Just a small point, but since you both referred to it, last I checked Microgeophagus referred to both ramirezi and altispinosa as their genus name. Kribs (pulcher) are certainly adaptable and easy to keep breed. They'll live and breed in all sorts of conditions, though they do seem to prefer it softer. The other Pelvicachromis species seem a little more insistant on having their water soft/acid. As far as Apistos are concerned, cacatuoides would be about the best bet no matter what the hardness ends up being, which would be very helpful to know. I was keeping and breeding my cacatuoides in well water long before I got an RO unit or even understood the importance of hardness. My tap comes out at pH 8.4, dKH/GH 15. They had no problems in this water. When I got my RO unit, I decided to experiment with the conditions and I continued to get good results when I dropped the pH to 6.5 and hardness down to 2-3degrees. Assuming the water is clean (shouldn't it always be for any fish?) and you can provide a diet with a little more emphasis on frozen/live, cacatuoides is a pretty hardy, easy to keep dwarf. Zack ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.