One of the biggest problems I've seen with rams is the source. Especially with the Asian bred rams, I've found them to be the frequent victims of internal parasites. With the help of a friend, we conducted extensive dissections of rams that died in the lfs I worked for. Almost all of the fish that died were found to be infested with internal nematodes and other such parasites. This would certainly explain their tendancy to waste away when coupled with the stress of being moved about. I've had no such problems with hobbyist bred stock. Zack Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the apistogramma mailing list, apisto@listbox.com. For instructions on how to subscribe or unsubscribe or get help, email apisto-request@listbox.com.