Re: Determining CO2 Concentrations in Natural Waters

[mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com]

David Sanchez......I would have accepted your humor had you not put at the 
end...

"I know your true colors.
 Good night Meat Tits"

...if you would wish to explain to the list the humor in those words then I'll 
accept it as humor oherwise just drop it ... but don't put this fight off on me 
this time Mr. Sanchez...I'm clean in this one....you are on your own here!

Mike Jacobs



> Relax Jacobs. I said that in jest note the smile :).
> Your counting. Please. If I was to go through the
> Apisto archives and count all the times you have
> attacked me. Would you like some cheese with your
> wine.
> 
> THE DAVE
> 
> 
> 
> --- mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com wrote:
> > ......OK list, I'll ignor this......but I am
> > counting........sorry!
> > 
> > Mike
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > > "I'm 
> > > not
> > > picking sides to cause trouble..............really
> > I'm
> > > 
> > > not.............!!!!!"
> > > 
> > > If I had a nickel for all the times you said that
> > on
> > > the Apisto list I'd be a rich man Jacobs. But it's
> > ok
> > > I know your true colors.
> > > 
> > > Good night Meat Tits
> > > 
> > > Dave :)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- Mike Jacobs <mjacobs2@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > > > .......................Youngker's in my
> > > > canoe.................that was the
> > > > damnest explanation I've ever seen.  I've read
> > it 4
> > > > times and will have to
> > > > do it 2-3 more times and talk to our chemistry
> > > > teacher at school.  I'm not
> > > > picking sides to cause
> > trouble..............really
> > > > I'm not.............!!!!!
> > > > And all I wanted to do was grow some
> > > > foxtail.............just add another
> > > > fluorescent tube Mike..........heh, heh,
> > > > heh.........wow!  Somewhere in
> > > > there I should be able to use differentiation or
> > > > integration to grow that
> > > > foxtail.................remember in there about
> > > > trying to divide by
> > > > zero...................I followed that.....;-)
> > ;-)
> > > > ;-).....you know the
> > > > definition of a "black
> > > >
> > hole"??????..................................it's
> > > > where God tried to divide by
> > > > zero......................
> > > > 
> > > > ...............I think we all ought to go to
> > Java
> > > > moss................;-)
> > > > ;-) ;-)
> > > > 
> > > > ....hey Big John........I didn't see anything
> > about
> > > > "blue goop" in there.
> > > > did you!!
> > > > 
> > > > Mike
> > > > 
> > > > Mike Jacobs
> > > > Center for Advanced Technologies
> > > > High School Math Instructor
> > > > St. Pete, Fl.
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "David A. Youngker"
> > <nestor10@mindspring.com>
> > > > To: "Apistogramma Mailing List"
> > <apisto@listbox.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 6:42 PM
> > > > Subject: Determining CO2 Concentrations in
> > Natural
> > > > Waters
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > > From: David Sanchez
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 3:56 PM
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think you just don!'t understand the
> > > > relationship
> > > > > > between pH and carbonic acid...
> > > > >
> > > > > David -
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm afraid that it is you that has confused a
> > few
> > > > issues. Let's see if we
> > > > > can walk through this in an academic manner
> > and
> > > > arrive at some sort of
> > > > > "consensus", shall we?
> > > > >
> > > > > > KH and pH both determine the level of CO2 in
> > a
> > > > > > body of water. This comes from a basic
> > > > > > understanding of the pH equation.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no "pH equation", per se - only the
> > > > _definition_ of pH, which is
> > > > an
> > > > > inverse log of the actual *count* of hydrogen
> > ions
> > > > in a solution. It's a
> > > > log
> > > > > scale because we're dealing with _huge_
> > numbers
> > > > here, and the numbers we
> > > > > _do_ use are in effect the *exponent* of the
> > > > value.
> > > > >
> > > > > The level of free hydrogen in the solution is
> > > > totally dependent upon what
> > > > > the various solutes _release_ into the
> > solvent.
> > > > Since the most commonly
> > > > > found buffer in natural systems, from stream 
> > beds
> > > > to bloodstreams, is the
> > > > > bicarbonate ion, we usually have to look no
> > > > further than the dissociation
> > > > > constant of that ion to see how many hydrogen
> > ions
> > > > it will provide.
> > > > >
> > > > > The formula you're probably thinking of is the
> > > > bicarbonate equilibrium
> > > > > described by the commonly-referenced
> > > > >
> > > > > H2CO3 <=> H+ + HCO3-
> > > > >
> > > > > which shows the products and reactants in
> > relation
> > > > to the equilibrium
> > > > point.
> > > > > The actual point itself, determined through
> > about
> > > > 150 years' of empirical
> > > > > data collected by analytical chemists, is
> > > > described as a ratio of products
> > > > > to reactants in a comparison of their creation
> > > > rates. When there are as
> > > > many
> > > > > hydrogen ions and bicarbonate ions being
> > produced
> > > > as there are being
> > > > > consumed, we have achieved "equilibrium"
> > around
> > > > the value
> > > > >
> > > > > ([H+][HCO3-])/ [H2CO3] = 4.3 x 10-7
> > > > >
> > > > > Therefore, to determine the pH of the solution
> > > > involved, we solve this for
> > > > > the hydrogen concentration as
> > > > >
> > > > > [H+] = ([H2CO3][4.3 x 10-7]) / [HCO3-]
> > > > >
> > > > > which ties the hydrogen content to the ratio
> > of
> > > > carbonic acid- to-
> > > > > bicarbonate ions.
> > > > >
> > > > > This gives us a starting point for the rest of
> > the
> > > > conversation.
> > > > >
> > > > > > This whole buffer solution system is so
> > > > misunderstood
> > > > > > by many hobbyists in my opinion. Why will pH
> > > > fluctuate,
> > > > > > just because we have a KH of 0 do we assume
> > the
> > > > pH will
> > > > > > simply bounce all over the place?
> > > > >
> > > > > If you're using bicarbonates as the
> > predominant
> > > > buffer, then that puts KH,
> > > > > carbonate hardness, or alkalinity (or whatever
> > the
> > > > popular hobby term is
> > > > > presently) right square in the denominator of
> > the
> > > > above ratio. What
> > > > happens
> > > > > when you try to divide by zero? (By the way,
> > since
> > > > the charts on Erik's
> > > > site
> > > > > is based on the Hendersen-Hasselbach
> > equilibrium
> > > > you'll find that same
> > 
> === message truncated ===
> 
> 
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